Sukkah Daf Yod Bet, Part 3
Introduction
This section continues to deal with the explanation of the two mishnayot: 1) the prohibition of using bundles of wood for the skhakh; 2) the prohibition of making a sukkah by hollowing out a haystack.
אמר רב אשי: אטו חבילי קש וחבילי עצים משום גזרת אוצר איכא, משום תעשה ולא מן העשוי ליכא? והחוטט בגדיש, משום תעשה ולא מן העשוי איכא, משום גזרת אוצר ליכא?
R. Ashi said: Are then bundles of straw, bundles of wood and bundles of brushwood forbidden only because of the possible use of a store-house and not because of, "You shall make [which implies], but not from that which is made," and is the hollowing out of a haystack forbidden only because of the "You shall make which implies but not from that which is made," and not because of the possible use of a store-house?
R. Ashi disagrees with R. Yirmiyah’s analysis. He holds that both reasons apply to both mishnayot. Using bundles of straw is prohibited because it looks like a storehouse and because one might first put it up there and then change one’s mind and untie it, thereby violating the principle, "You shall make, but not from that which is already made." Hollowing out a haystack also looks like a storehouse and it also violates the "you shall make" principle.
ורבי יוחנן אמר לך: הכא דקתני אין מסככין בהן – לכתחילה הוא דאין מסככין משום גזרת אוצר, הא דאורייתא – שפיר דמי. התם דקתני אינה סוכה – אפילו דיעבד, מדאורייתא נמי אינה סוכה.
And R. Yohanan could say to you that here where it states, "One may not use them as skhakh" it means that only at the outset it is invalid, because of the possible use of a store-house, but according to Toraitic law it is valid;
While in the other case where it is stated "it is not a sukkah," it implies that even when he has made it, it is not a sukkah, even from the Torah.
The Talmud responds on behalf of R. Yohanan why he explained the two mishnayot he did. R. Yohanan picked up on small cues from the language of the two mishnayot. When our mishnah said, "one may not use them as skhakh" it meant from the outset (lehathilah) one shouldn’t use them. But if one did, the sukkah is still valid. This type of halakhah is a "decree (gezerah)" one shouldn’t do something, but if he did, his act is still valid. The other mishnah uses the language "it is not a sukkah." This means that even according to toraitic law it is not a sukkah. This type of halakhah is one that would come from a midrash on the Torah such as "You shall make, and not from that which is already made."