Kiddushin, Daf Lammed Vav, Part 2

 

Introduction

Rava offers yet another reason why Issi exempts women from the prohibition of making a bald spot on their heads.

 

רבא אמר היינו טעמא דאיסי דיליף בין עיניכם מתפילין מה להלן נשים פטורות אף כאן נשים פטורות

 

Rava said: Issi s reasoning is that he derives between your eyes from tefillin: just as there, women are exempt, so too here, women are exempt.

 

The words between your eyes appear in connection with the bald spot prohibition and tefillin just as women are exempt from tefillin, so too they are exempt from the bald spot prohibition.

 

ורבא מאי טעמא לא אמר כאביי קרח קרחה לא משמע ליה

 

Now, why does Rava not say as Abaye?

[The distinction between] kerah and karhah does not seem correct to him.

 

At the end of yesterday s section, Abaye had to posit a different between the word kerah and korhah. Rava thinks that s a stretch.

 

ואביי מאי טעמא לא אמר כרבא אמר לך תפילין גופייהו מהכא גמר לה מה להלן מקום שעושים קרחה בגובהה של ראש אף כאן מקום הנחה בגובה הראש

 

And why does Abaye reject Rava s reason?

He would say to you: Tefillin themselves are learned from this: just as there, [ between the eyes means] the place where a bald spot can be made–on the upper part of the head, so too here the place for wearing [tefillin] is on the upper part of the head.

 

Abaye says we cannot derive one of the rules for the bald spot from tefillin because elsewhere we learn in the opposite direction, deriving the rules for tefillin from the bald spot prohibition. Tefillin must be worn above the hair line, where one can make a bald spot. They are not worn literally between the eyes.

 

ובין לאביי ובין לרבא האי בנים אתם מאי דרשי ביה

האי מיבעי לכדתניא בנים אתם לה’ אלהיכם בזמן שאתם נוהגים מנהג בנים אתם קרוים בנים אין אתם נוהגים מנהג בנים אין אתם קרוים בנים דברי ר’ יהודה

רבי מאיר אומר בין כך ובין כך אתם קרוים בנים שנאמר (ירמיהו ד, כב) בנים סכלים המה ואומר (דברים לב, כ) בנים לא אמון בם ואומר (ישעיהו א, ד) זרע מרעים בנים משחיתים ואומר (הושע ב, א) והיה במקום אשר יאמר להם לא עמי אתם יאמר להם בני אל חי

 

Now, according to both Abaye and Rava, how do they interpret this [verse], You are sons [etc. ]? That is needed for what was taught: You are sons of the Lord your God ; when you behave as sons you are called sons; if you do not behave as sons, you are not called sons: the words of R. Judah.

R. Meir said: In either case you are called sons, for it is said, They are foolish children (Jeremiah 4:22); and it is also said: They are children who have no faith (Deuteronomy 32:20); and it is also said, A seed of evil-doers, sons that deal corruptly (Isaiah 1:4); and it is also said, And it shall come to pass that, in the place where it was said to them, You are not my people, it shall be said unto them, You are the sons of the living God (Hosea 2:1).

 

This baraita contains a dispute between R. Judah and R. Meir over whether Israel remains sons of God (or children of God) even after they sin. According to R. Judah the verse from Deuteronomy 14 indicates that if they do not behave, Israel can lose their status as sons. R. Meir cites a plethora of verses that refer to Israel as sons even after they sin.

 

מאי ואומר וכי תימא סכלי הוא דמקרי בני כי לית בהו הימנותייהו לא מיקרו בני ת"ש ואומר בנים לא אמון בם וכי תימא כי לית בהו הימנותא הוא דמיקרו בנים כי פלחו לעבודת כוכבים לא מיקרו בנים ת"ש ואומר זרע מרעים בנים משחיתים וכ"ת בנים משחיתים הוא דמיקרו בני מעלייא לא מיקרו ת"ש ואומר והיה במקום אשר יאמר להם לא עמי אתם יאמר להם בני אל חי

 

What does it add by and it says ? For should you say, the foolish are called sons, but those who lack faith are not called sons, come and hear: And it says: They are children who have no faith. And should you say, when they have no faith they are called sons, but when they serve idols they are not called sons come and hear: And it says: a seed of evil-doers, sons that deal corruptly. And should you say, those that are corrupted are called son, but not good sons come and hear: And it says, And it shall come to pass that, in the place where it was said to them, You are not my people, it shall be said unto them, You are the sons of the living God.

 

The Talmud explains why R. Meir needs so many verses to prove his point. Ultimately, even idol worshipping Israelites are still called sons of the living God. This is a deep, but in some ways problematic message. On the one hand, it provides hope to all Israelites. No matter how much a Jew is distanced from God and Judaism, in the eyes of Judaism, he/she remains a Jew. On the other hand, one could read here a genealogical understanding of Judaism that prioritizes genes over everything else, even morality.