Gittin, Daf Yod Gimmel, Part 5

 

Introduction

The Talmud goes back to discuss Rav s statement about transactions that occur in front of all three parties.

 

גּוּפָא אָמַר רַב הוּנָא אָמַר רַב מָנֶה לִי בְּיָדְךָ תְּנֵהוּ לוֹ לִפְלוֹנִי בְּמַעֲמַד שְׁלָשְׁתָּן קָנָה

אָמַר רָבָא מִסְתַּבְּרָא מִילְּתֵיהּ דְּרַב בְּפִקָּדוֹן אֲבָל בְּמִלְוָה לֹא

 

The matter itself: Rav said: [One who says]: You have a maneh of mine. Give it to So-and-son. If he does so in the presence of all three, the recipient has acquired.

Rava said: It makes sense that Rav was referring to a deposit, but not to a loan.

 

According to Rava, Rav s statement about transferring a debt from one to the other can only work if the money was given as a deposit, a specific item or amount of cash meant to be watched and not used. Since this is specific money given to the recipient, it can be transferred by making a statement in front of all three parties. But a loan is not specific money. When one gives a maneh to another, he does not need that maneh back. He just needs a maneh. Therefore, it cannot be transferred without a document or other means of transfer. Words will not be sufficient.

 

וְהָאֱלֹהִים אָמַר רַב אֲפִילּוּ בְּמִלְוָה

אִתְּמַר נָמֵי אָמַר שְׁמוּאֵל מִשְּׁמֵיהּ דְּלֵוִי מִלְוָה לִי בְּיָדְךָ תְּנֵהוּ לוֹ לִפְלוֹנִי בְּמַעֲמַד שְׁלָשְׁתָּן קָנָה

וְטַעְמָא מַאי אָמַר אַמֵּימָר נַעֲשָׂה כְּאוֹמֵר לוֹ בִּשְׁעַת מַתַּן מָעוֹת שַׁעְבַּדְנָא לָךְ לְדִידָךְ וּלְכֹל דְּאָתוּ מֵחֲמָתָךְ

 

By God, Rav said even in reference to a loan.

It was also stated: Shmuel said in the name of Levi: [One who says to another], You have a loan of mine, give it to So-and-so if this was done in the presence of all three, he has acquired.

And what is the reason? Amemar said: It is as if he said to him when he gave the coins, I am indebted to you, and to any who come on your behalf.

 

The Talmud rules against Rava. Rav s ruling that one can transfer a debt in the presence of all three parties is true even of a loan. The reason is explained by Amemar. When someone loans money to another person, the debt is not just to the creditor. It is to anyone who comes on the creditor s behalf. Therefore, the transfer to a third party is designed to work from the outset. We will continue to discuss this in tomorrow s section.