Gittin, Daf Vav, Part 2
Introduction
This section and the following ones deal with the requirement to make the declaration in Babylonia.
אִיתְּמַר בָּבֶל רַב אָמַר כְּאֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל לְגִיטִּין וּשְׁמוּאֵל אָמַר כְּחוּצָה לָאָרֶץ
לֵימָא בְּהָא קָא מִיפַּלְגִי דְּמָר סָבַר לְפִי שֶׁאֵין בְּקִיאִין לִשְׁמָהּ וְהָנֵי גְּמִירִי וּמָר סָבַר לְפִי שֶׁאֵין עֵדִים מְצוּיִין לְקַיְּימוֹ וְהָנֵי נָמֵי לָא שְׁכִיחִי
It was stated: Rav said: Babylonia is like the Land of Israel when it comes to gittin. And Shmuel said: It is like outside of Israel.
Shall we say that they disagree about the following: One master holds that it is because they are not experts in the laws of for her sake, but these scribes are learned. And one master holds that it is because witnesses are not found to uphold the get and in this case they are also not found.
According to Rav, if the get is brought from one place to another in Babylonia, the declaration need not be made. The Talmud suggests that this is because he holds like Rabbah the declaration is to remedy the problem caused by scribes who do not know the law. Scribes in Babylonia know the law so the declaration need not be made.
Shmuel holds that Babylonia is treated like any other community outside of Israel the declaration must be made. The Talmud suggests that this is because the declaration is to remedy the problem of not being able to find the witnesses, and such a problem could exist in Babylonia.
וְתִסְבְּרָא הָא רַבָּה אִית לֵיהּ דְּרָבָא
אֶלָּא דְּכוּלֵּי עָלְמָא בָּעֵינַן לְקַיְּימוֹ רַב סָבַר כֵּיוָן דְּאִיכָּא מְתִיבָתָא מִישְׁכָּח שְׁכִיחִי וּשְׁמוּאֵל סָבַר מְתִיבָתָא בְּגִירְסַיְיהוּ טְרִידִי
But does this make sense? Behold, Rabbah agrees with Rava.
Rather, all hold that [the reason for the declaration is that] we need witnesses to uphold the get. Rav holds that since there is an academy, witnesses will be found. And Shmuel holds that those in the academy will be busy with their learning.
The problem with suggesting that Rav holds like Rabbah is that we have already stated that Rabbah agrees with Rava we always have to be concerned about witnesses not being found to uphold the get.
Therefore, the Talmud suggests another interpretation of the dispute. Rav holds that since there are large academies in Babylonia, witnesses will always be found to uphold the get. Rashi explains that there are two large academies, in Pumbedita and Sura. Students travel back and forth between these academies and will be able to ascertain the validity of the get for they will recognize the signatures of the witnesses. Shmuel is concerned that these students will not have time to uphold the get, for they are busy with their learning.
אִיתְּמַר נָמֵי אָמַר רַבִּי אַבָּא אָמַר רַב הוּנָא עָשִׂינוּ עַצְמֵינוּ בְּבָבֶל כְּאֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל לְגִיטִּין מִכִּי אֲתָא רַב לְבָבֶל
It was also stated: Rabbi Abba said in the name of Rav Huna: We made ourselves in Babylonia like the Land of Israel in terms of gittin, from the time that Rav came to Babylonia.
This statement accords with Rav s statement above. From the time that Rav moved from Israel to Babylonia, Babylonia rabbis treated Babylonia as equivalent to Israel. The simple sense is that just as the rabbis of Israel were experts in the writing of gittin, once Rav came to Babylonia, Babylonian rabbis were also experts.
מֵתִיב רַבִּי יִרְמְיָה רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר מֵרְקָם לְמִזְרָח וּרְקָם כַּמִּזְרָח מֵאַשְׁקְלוֹן לַדָּרוֹם וְאַשְׁקְלוֹן כַּדָּרוֹם מֵעַכּוֹ לַצָּפוֹן וְעַכּוֹ כַּצָּפוֹן וְהָא בָּבֶל לִצְפוֹנָהּ דְּאֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל קָיְימָא דִּכְתִיב וַיֹּאמֶר ה׳ אֵלָי מִצָּפוֹן תִּפָּתַח הָרָעָה
וּתְנַן רַבִּי מֵאִיר אוֹמֵר עַכּוֹ כְּאֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל לְגִיטִּין וַאֲפִילּוּ רַבִּי מֵאִיר לָא קָאָמַר אֶלָּא בְּעַכּוֹ דִּמְקָרְבָא אֲבָל בָּבֶל דִּמְרַחֲקָא לָא
R. Yirmiyah raised an objection: Rabbi Judah says: From Rekem eastwards, Rekem being like the east; from Ashkelon southwards, Ashkelon being like the south; and from Acco northwards, Acco being like the north.
And Babylonia is to the north of the Land of Israel, as it is written, Then the Lord said to me: Out of the north the evil shall break forth (Jeremiah 1:14).
And it was taught: Rabbi Meir says: Acco counts as the land of Israel in the matter of bills of divorce.
And even Rabbi Meir was referring only to Acco which is close [to Israel] but not Babylonia.
R. Yirmiyah raises an objection from the mishnah that Babylonia, which is considered to be to the north of Israel, counts as outside of Israel. Acco is on the northern side of Israel and according to R. Judah, it counts as outside of Israel. And while R. Meir holds that it is within Israel, all would agree that Babylonia, which is further north, is definitely out of Israel. Thus everyone agrees that in Babylonia, the declaration must be made.
הוּא מוֹתֵיב לַהּ וְהוּא מְפָרֵק לַהּ לְבַר מִבָּבֶל
He raised the objection and he solved it: Except for Babylonia.
R. Yirmiyah easily resolves his own objection Babylonia is an exception. The geographical description in in the mishnah refers to all lands outside of Israel, except Babylonia.
I should note that this is an interesting case where the amoraim seem to clearly imply that there was a change in the halakhah. When Rav arrived in Babylonia, the law changed. But R. Yirmiyah ignores the possibility of change the law of the mishnah seems to be eternal. Therefore, he must build an exception inside the mishnah for this change.
עַד הֵיכָן הִיא בָּבֶל אָמַר רַב פָּפָּא כְּמַחֲלוֹקֶת לְיוּחֲסִין כָּךְ מַחֲלוֹקֶת לְגִיטִּין
וְרַב יוֹסֵף אָמַר מַחֲלוֹקֶת לְיוּחֲסִין אֲבָל לְגִיטִּין דִּבְרֵי הַכֹּל עַד אַרְבָּא תִּנְיָינָא דְּגִישְׁרָא
What are the borders of Babylonia? Rav Papa said: The same dispute that there is for genealogical matters is for gittin.
And Rav Yosef said: There is a dispute with regard to genealogical matters but when it comes to gittin all agree that the border goes to the second arch of the bridge [over the Euphrates].
We now need to determine what the borders of Babylonia are. Rav Papa refers to the dispute over lineage Babylonia was considered to have superior lineage. This dispute is found on Kiddushin 71a. Rav Yosef says that the rule is more lenient for gittin all hold that the border goes until the second arch of the bridge over the Euphrates. I wonder how many arches there were on this bridge.
רַב חִסְדָּא מַצְרֵיךְ מֵאַקְטֵיסְפוֹן לְבֵי אַרְדָּשִׁיר וּמִבֵּי אַרְדָּשִׁיר לְאַקְטֵיסְפוֹן לָא מַצְרֵיךְ
לֵימָא קָסָבַר לְפִי שֶׁאֵין בְּקִיאִין לִשְׁמָהּ וְהָנֵי גְּמִירִי
וְתִסְבְּרָא וְהָא רַבָּה אִית לֵיהּ דְּרָבָא
אֶלָּא דְּכוּלֵּי עָלְמָא בָּעֵינַן לְקַיְּימוֹ וְהָנֵי כֵּיוָן דְּאָזְלִי לְשׁוּקָא לְהָתָם הָנָךְ יָדְעִי בַּחֲתִימוֹת יְדָא דְּהָנֵי
וְהָנֵי בִּדְהָנָךְ לָא יָדְעִי מַאי טַעְמָא בְּשׁוּקַיְיהוּ טְרִידִי
R. Hisda required the declaration when going from Aktesfon to Bei Ardashir but from Bei Ardashir to Aktesfon he did not require it.
Shall we say that this is because [he holds that the declaration is made] because they are not experts in for her sake and these ones are experts?
But does this make sense? Behold, Rabbah agrees with Rava.
Rather, all hold that [the reason for the declaration is that] we need witnesses to uphold the get. And since these go to the marketplace there, they will know these ones signatures. But these ones will not know the signatures of the others. Why not? They are busy with their marketplace.
R. Hisda requires the declaration be made when traveling from one place to the other but not in the opposite direction. At first, the Talmud suggests that this is because those in Bei Ardashir are experts and those in Aktesfon are not. But this clashes with the idea that everyone holds we must be concerned that the witnesses are not there to uphold the get.
Therefore, the Talmud resolves that it has to do with where the marketplace is and how busy people are. The residents of Bei Ardashir go to Aktesfon for the market. Therefore, the residents of Aktesfon will recognize the other s signatures and they will be able to affirm whether they were forged or not. But the residents of Bei Ardashir are busy buying things and therefore will not recognize the signatures of those from Aktesfon. Therefore, when someone brings a get from Aktesfon to Bei Ardashir, he must make the announcement.