Avodah Zarah, Daf Zayin, Part 6
Introduction
In yesterday s section Nahum the Mede made several statements to which the other sages responded, Let the matter be suppressed and left unsaid. Our section picks up with an amoraic discussion of this response. Do we ever follow Nahum the Mede s opinion?
אמר ליה רב אחא בר מניומי לאביי גברא רבה אתא מאתרין כל מילתא דאמר אמרי ליה נשתקע הדבר ולא נאמר.
אמר איכא חדא דעבדינן כוותיה דתניא נחום המדי אומר שואל אדם צרכיו בשומע תפלה.
R. Aha b. Minyomi said to Abaye: A great man has come from our place, but whatever he says he is told that it ought to be suppressed and left unsaid!
He replied: There is one instance in which we do follow his ruling, as it is taught: Nahum the Mede says: One should ask for one’s own needs in the blessing [concluding with] Who hears prayer.
R. Aha b. Minyomi is not pleased that the sages from Palestine respond in each instance to Nahum the Mede, a sage from the region of Babylonia/Medea, with let the matter be suppressed and left unsaid. Abaye responds by saying that there is one case in which we do follow his ruling one should make a special request for one s needs while reciting the who hears prayer blessing, which is part of the daily Amidah.
אמר בר מינה דההיא דתליא באשלי רברבי דתניא ר’ אליעזר אומר שואל אדם צרכיו ואחר כך יתפלל שנאמר (תהלים קב, א) "תפלה לעני כי יעטוף ולפני ה’ ישפוך שיחו" וגו’. אין שיחה אלא תפלה שנאמר (בראשית כד, סג) "ויצא יצחק לשוח בשדה".
ר’ יהושע אומר יתפלל ואח"כ ישאל צרכיו שנאמר (תהלים קמב, ג) "אשפוך לפניו שיחי צרתי לפניו אגיד".
He said: This is an exception, for it is hanging on strong ropes. As it is taught: R. Eliezer says: One should first ask for one s own needs and then pray, as it is said; A prayer for the afflicted when he is faint, and [then] pours forth his meditation before the Lord (Psalms 102:1) By meditation, only prayer is meant, as it is said, And Isaac went out to meditate in the field (Genesis 24:63).
R. Joshua says: One should first pray and then ask for one s own needs, as it is said, I pour out my meditation before Him [then] I declare my [own] affliction before Him (Psalms 142:3).
R. Aha b. Minyomi says that in the case of when one asks God for his needs, we are not following Nahum the Mede but actually other great rabbis (strong ropes). This introduces a baraita in which R. Eliezer and R. Joshua argue over whether one should first ask for one s needs and then pray, or the opposite. Each rabbi supports his opinion with a verse. Note, that R. Nahum the Mede s opinion has not yet been cited.
ור"א נמי הכתיב "אשפוך לפניו שיחי"! הכי קאמר "אשפוך לפניו שיחי" בזמן שצרתי לפניו אגיד.
ור’ יהושע נמי הכתיב "תפלה לעני כי יעטוף"! הכי קאמר אימתי תפלה לעני בזמן שלפני ה’ ישפוך שיחו
Now, as to R. Eliezer, is it not written, I pour out my meditation etc.! This is what it means, I pour out my meditation before Him after I have already declared my [own] affliction.
And as to R. Joshua, is it not written, A prayer for the afflicted when he is faint etc.!
This is what it means: When should there be prayer for the afflicted? After he had poured forth his meditation before the Lord.
Each rabbi now interprets how he would read the verse that the other rabbi cited as evidence.
מכדי קראי לא כמר דייקי ולא כמר דייקי במאי קמיפלגי? כדדריש ר’ שמלאי [דדריש ר’ שמלאי] לעולם יסדר אדם שבחו של מקום ואח"כ יתפלל. מנלן? ממשה רבינו דכתיב (דברים ג, כד) "ה’ אלהים אתה החלות להראות את עבדך" וגו’ וכתיב בתריה "אעברה נא ואראה את הארץ הטובה".
רבי יהושע סבר ילפינן ממשה ור"א סבר לא ילפינן ממשה שאני משה דרב גובריה.
Since the verses do not prove one master s statement more than the other, what are they really arguing about? It as was expounded by R. Simlai; for R. Simlai gave the following exposition: One should always recount the praises of God and then pray. From where do we learn this? From Moshe Rabbenu, as it is written: O Lord God, You have begun to show Your servant Your greatness, and afterwards it is written Let me go over and see the good land (Deuteronomy 3:24). R. Joshua holds that we learn from [the example of] Moses, while R. Eliezer says we should not learn from the example of Moses; Moses is different for he was a great man.
The Talmud now suggests that the dispute between R. Joshua and R. Eliezer was really connected to whether we learn from Moses s behavior. Moses first praised God and then he asked for his needs. R. Joshua says that we too should act in the same manner. But R. Eliezer says that Moses is different. His greatness allows him to sincerely praise God first. But with any other human being, it is better to simply first ask for one s needs.
וחכ"א לא כדברי זה ולא כדברי זה אלא שואל אדם צרכיו בשומע תפלה
אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל הלכה שואל אדם צרכיו בשומע תפלה.
The sages say [the decision is] neither according to the one nor according to the other. Rather one should pray for his personal needs at the blessing [concluding with], Who hears prayer.
R. Judah said in the name of Shmuel: The halakhah is that one should pray for his personal needs at the blessing [concluding with], Who hears prayer.
אמר רב יהודה בריה דרב שמואל בר שילת משמיה דרב אע"פ שאמרו שואל אדם צרכיו בשומע תפלה אבל אם בא לומר בסוף כל ברכה וברכה מעין כל ברכה וברכה אומר.
R. Judah the son of Shmuel b. Shilat said in the name of Rav: Even though it was said one should pray for his personal needs at the blessing [concluding with], Who hears prayer, nevertheless, if he is wants to say at the of any of the blessing an addition similar to that blessing, he may do so.
While one generally asks for one s needs during who hears prayer, it is permitted to add on to each blessing personal requests connected to the theme of that blessing. Thus, for instance, if one had a test, one could add a request to have the wisdom to do well on the test, at the end of the blessing for wisdom.
א"ר חייא בר אשי אמר רב אע"פ שאמרו שואל אדם צרכיו בשומע תפלה אם יש לו חולה בתוך ביתו אומר בברכת חולים ואם צריך לפרנסה אומר בברכת השנים.
R. Hiyya b. Ashi said in the name of Rav: Even though they said one should pray for his personal needs at the blessing [concluding with], Who hears prayer, if [for example] one has a sick person at home, he may say [his supplication] at the blessing for the Sick; or if he is in need of sustenance, he may say [his supplication] at the blessing for [the prosperity] of years.
R. Hiyya b. Ashi adds in some good opportunities to recite other supplications for common needs.
אמר ר’ יהושע בן לוי אע"פ שאמרו שואל אדם צרכיו בשומע תפלה אבל אם בא לומר אחר תפלתו אפילו כסדר יוה"כ אומר:
R. Joshua b. Levi said: Even though they said one should pray for his personal needs at the blessing [concluding with], Who hears prayer, if one wishes to say them after his prayer, even to the extent of the Yom Kippur Service, he may do so.
One can also pray after prayer. This is what many people do today, since it is probably a bit easier than interrupting in the middle of the mandatory prayers.