Avodah Zarah, Daf Yod, Part 1

 

Introduction

Last week s daf concluded with a story of a document that was dated close to the proper date if it followed the date of the beginning of Greek reign. In this week s opening sugya, the question is asked whether Jews use such a system of counting altogether in their documents. Or do they date their documents by reference to the Exodus from Egypt.

 

מתקיף לה רב אחא בר יעקב ממאי דלמלכות יונים מנינן? דלמא ליציאת מצרים מנינן ושבקיה לאלפא קמא ונקטיה אלפא בתרא והאי מאוחר הוא

 

R. Aha b. Jacob asked the following difficulty: How do we know that we count according to the rule of the Greeks? Perhaps we count from the Exodus from Egypt, omitting the first thousand years and giving the years of the next thousand, and the document is really post-dated!

 

R. Aha b. Jacob says that perhaps he dated the document according to the date of the Exodus, which is 1000 years before the beginning of Greek rule. He just left off the thousands assuming this is clear (today we leave the thousands off of our Jewish dating). If so, this document indeed would be a post-dated document by six years.

 

אמר רב נחמן בגולה אין מונין אלא למלכי יונים בלבד

הוא סבר דחויי קא מדחי ליה נפק דק ואשכח דתניא בגולה אין מונין אלא למלכי יונים בלבד.

 

R. Nahman said: In the Diaspora they count only according to the rule of the Greeks.

He [R. Aha b. Jacob] thought that R. Nahman wanted to just turn him away. He went and studied it thoroughly and found that it is indeed taught [in a baraita]: In the Diaspora they count only according to the rule of the Greeks.

 

R. Nahman, and then a baraita, both relate that in the Diaspora Jews count only according to the years of Greek rule.

 

אמר רבינא מתניתין נמי דיקא דתנן באחד בניסן ר"ה למלכים ולרגלים. ואמרינן למלכים למאי הלכתא? אמר רב חסדא לשטרות

ותנן באחד בתשרי ר"ה לשנים ולשמיטין ואמרינן לשנים למאי הלכתא ואמר רב חסדא לשטרות

קשיא שטרות אהדדי! ומשנינן כאן למלכי ישראל כאן למלכי עובדי כוכבים

למלכי עובדי כוכבים מתשרי מנינן למלכי ישראל מניסן מנינן

ואנן השתא מתשרי מנינן ואי ס"ד ליציאת מצרים מנינן מניסן בעינן למימני!

אלא לאו ש"מ למלכי יונים מנינן ש"מ:

Ravina said: Our Mishnah also proves this, for we taught, The first of Nisan is New Year for reckoning [the reign of] kings and for festivals, and we said, The reign of kings, what is the practical significance of this law? R. Hisda replied: [It affects the dating] of documents.

And the same mishnah taught, the first of Tishrei is New Year for [counting] years and sabbatical cycles and we said, for years, what is the practical significance of this law? And R. Hisda [again] replied: [It affects the dating of] documents.

The dating documents contradicts the other dating of documents? And we resolved this by saying: The one refers to Jewish kings, the other to non-Jewish kings. For non-Jewish kings we count from Tishrei, and for Jewish kings from Nisan.

Now, in the present time we count the years from Tishri; were we then to say that we count our from the Exodus from Egypt we would need to count from.

Rather learn from this that we count from the reign of the Greek kings. Learn from this.

 

This entire section is proof that today (meaning in Talmudic times) documents are dated from the years of the Greeks. There are two systems of reckoning the years in the Mishnah of Rosh Hashanah quoted here one Jewish that begins in Nissan and one non-Jewish that begins in Tishrei. Today Jews all over the world count the year beginning in Tishrei. This implies that we are counting the year according to the rule of the Greeks and not the Exodus.

I should note that only in the Middle Ages did Jews began to count the years from the creation of the world. Such a system was not known in the Talmudic period.