Avodah Zarah, Daf Samekh Vav, Part 5

 

Introduction

Abaye and Rava continue to argue about whether certain substances combine to create a prohibited mixture.

 

חלא לגו חמרא דברי הכל בנותן טעם

 

If [prohibited] vinegar fell into [permitted] wine, all agree that it depends on whether it imparts a flavor.

 

In this case Abaye and Rava both agree that these are two different substances different names and different tastes. Therefore the wine is prohibited only if the vinegar imparts taste.

חמרא לגו חלא אביי אמר במשהו ורבא אמר בנותן טעם

 

But if [prohibited] wine fell into [permitted] vinegar, Abaye said [that it is prohibited] however small the quantity, and Rava said [that it depends upon whether the forbidden element] imparts a flavor.

 

The two sages debate if wine falls into vinegar. Abaye says that even if the wine does not impart taste it causes the vinegar to be prohibited. Rava says that the wine must impart taste. The Talmud shall now explain their reasoning.

 

אביי אמר במשהו ריחיה חלא וטעמא חמרא חלא והוה ליה מין במינו וכל מין במינו במשהו

 

Abaye said [that it is prohibited] however small the quantity because the smell [of the wine] is that of vinegar and the taste is of wine, and therefore it is considered vinegar.

It is then a case of one species [being mixed] with the same species and in such cases even the smallest amount causes a prohibition.

 

Abaye says that as soon as the wine even begins to fall into the vinegar it will begin to smell like vinegar. The smell of the vinegar will waft up into the wine. A substance is defined by its smell and not by its taste. Therefore this is a case of one species being mixed with the same species and in such cases even the smallest amount of prohibited substance causes a prohibition.

 

רבא אמר בנותן טעם ריחיה חלא וטעמא חמרא חמרא והוה ליה מין בשאינו מינו וכל מין בשאינו מינו בנותן טעם

 

Rava said [that it depends upon whether the forbidden substance] imparts taste, because the smell [of the wine] is vinegar and the taste is of wine and therefore it is regarded as wine, and it is a case of one species [being mixed] with a different species, and in such circumstances the mixture is prohibited only if the prohibited substance imparts taste.

 

Rava says that even though the wine smells like vinegar, it is wine and therefore this is a case of two different species being mixed together. In such cases the prohibited substance must impart a taste for the mixture to become prohibited.

I should note that were it not for the Talmud I would have explained the debate in a much simpler way. The taste of vinegar is much more pronounced than wine. So when vinegar falls into wine, we can use the taste test. But when wine falls into vinegar it would require a very large amount to nullify the taste of the vinegar. Therefore the taste test won t really work. So the amoraim debate whether it should be used in any case.