Avodah Zarah, Daf Nun Vav, Part 1

 

Introduction

The mishnah we have been learning determined that the liquid in the press is considered juice and the laws of yayin nesekh do not apply to it until it descends to the vat. The Talmud cites another teaching concerning tithes that seems to contradict this definition. The assumption here is that if liquid is determined to be wine vis a vis the laws of yayin nesekh, then it should also be wine according to the laws of tithing.

Once food becomes subject to the laws of tithing, one may not eat of it in a formal manner.

 

ואינו עושה יין נסך עד שירד לבור: והתניא יין משיקפה אמר רבא לא קשיא הא ר"ע הא רבנן דתנן יין משירד לבור ר"ע אומר משיקפה

 

And [the juice] does not become yayin nesekh until it descends into the vat.

But we have learned: Wine [becomes subject to the tithe] when it is skimmed!

Rava said: There is no contradiction, because this is R. Akiva’s opinion and [that of the mishnah] is the rabbis. For it has been taught: [The liquid is considered to be] wine when it descends into the vat. R. Akiva says, When it is skimmed.

 

The baraita about tithes teaches that even when in the press the liquid can be considered wine once the waste (skins and seeds) has been skimmed off the top. This is even before the liquid flows down to the vat, and thus disagrees with our mishnah.

Rava answers that there is indeed a dispute between the mishnah and the baraita, and it reflects the dispute between the rabbis and R. Akiva. According to the rabbis, the grape juice is not subject to tithes until it descends into the vat. This accords with the mishnah from Avodah Zarah. In contrast, R. Akiva says that it is subject to tithes once it is has been skimmed, even though it is still in the press. This contradicts the mishnah from Avodah Zarah.