Avodah Zarah, Daf Mem Tet, Part 3

 

Introduction

We are still trying to identify the authors of the two baraitot concerning a field fertilized with manure from an idolatrous source or a cow fed with food used in idol worship. Earlier we said that this was R. Eliezer and the sages. The Talmud now brings another dispute between these two parties.

 

אלא ר"א ורבנן דעצים דתנן נטל הימנה עצים אסורה בהנאה הסיק בה את התנור חדש יותץ ישן יוצן אפה בו את הפת אסורה בהנאה נתערבה באחרים כולן אסורות בהנאה ר"א אומר יוליך הנאה לים המלח אמרו לו אין פדיון לעבודת כוכבים

 

Rather it is the R. Eliezer and the rabbis concerning the wood [of an Asherah]; for we have learned: If one took pieces of wood from it, they are forbidden to be used. If he heated a new oven with them, it must be broken into pieces. [If he heated] an old oven with them, it must be allowed to cool. If he baked bread [in an oven so heated], it is forbidden to be used, and if [the loaf] became mixed with other loaves, they are all prohibited. R. Eliezer says: Let him throw an equivalent amount to his benefit into the sea. [The Sages] said to him: There is no redemption for idolatry.

 

R. Eliezer refers to a situation in which bread was baked in an oven heated up with wood from an asherah tree. This is another case of this and that cause for the prohibited wood and the permitted oven were used to cook the bread. Thus R. Eliezer is the strict opinion in cases where there are two causes, one prohibited and one permitted, the rule is stringent.

 

רבנן דפליגי עליה דר"א מאן נינהו אילימא רבנן דעצים אחמורי מחמרי

 

The rabbis who disagree with R. Eliezer, who are they? If I say it is the rabbis in the mishnah about the wood, they take the stricter view!

 

We have identified R. Eliezer as representing the view that when there are two causes, the product is prohibited. But who are the rabbis who disagree with him. It can t be the rabbis in that very mishnah, because they rule even more strictly.

 

אלא רבנן דשאור אימר דשמעת להו לרבנן דמקילי בשאור בעבודת כוכבים מי מקילי

 

Rather it must be the rabbis [who spoke] about the leaven.

But say that you have heard that the Rabbis take a lenient view in connection with leaven, but are they lenient with regard to idolatry!

 

The second possibility is that it refers to the rabbis in the mishnah about the two leavening agents, one prohibited and one permitted. They hold that no matter what order they are put into the dough, the dough is permitted. But just because they are lenient when it comes to terumah dough does not mean that they are lenient even with regard to idolatry.

 

אלא לעולם הא רבי יוסי והא רבנן ר’ יוסי לדבריהם דרבנן אמר להו לדידי זה וזה גורם מותר לדידכו דאמריתו זה וזה גורם אסור אודו לי מיהת אף ירקות בימות הגשמים

ורבנן כדאמר רב מרי בריה דרב כהנא

 

Rather, one baraita is R. Yose’s and the other is the rabbis.

And R. Yose was responding to the words of the rabbis, saying to them: According to my opinion, when there are two causes the product is permitted; but according to you who hold that when there are two causes the product is prohibited, admit to me that [the planting of] vegetables in winter [is prohibited]!

But the rabbis [would reply] as R. Mari son of R. Kahana stated.

 

The Talmud resolves the matter by saying that R. Yose does hold that when there are two causes the product is permitted, as we saw in the case of planting a nut of orlah it is permitted to use what grows because there were two causes, nut and ground. So why then does he say that it is problematic to plant under an asherah tree because the leaves will fertilize the plant? This, the Talmud answers, was not his own opinion. He was only responding to the rabbis you rabbis who hold that when there are two causes the product is prohibited should hold that planting under an asherah should be prohibited even in the winter.

And the rabbis would say it is permitted because while there is a gain in fertilization, there is also a loss because the shade prevents them from getting sun.

 

אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל הלכה כרבי יוסי:

 

Rav Judah said in the name of Shmuel: The halakhah agrees with R. Yose.

 

It is forbidden to plant under an asherah tree, even in the winter.

 

ההוא גינתא דאיזדבל בזבלא דעבודת כוכבים שלח רב עמרם קמיה דרב יוסף א"ל הכי אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל הלכה כרבי יוסי:

 

There was a garden fertilized with the manure obtained from an idolatrous source. R. Amram sent to R. Joseph. He replied to him: Thus said Rav Judah in the name of Shmuel: The halakhah agrees with R. Yose.

 

The produce in this garden is prohibited in accordance with R. Yose.