Avodah Zarah, Daf Mem, Part 3
Introduction
Today s sugya continues to discuss how we can tell if unidentifiable fish is kosher.
ההוא ארבא דצחנתא דאתי לסיכרא. נפק רב הונא בר חיננא וחזא ביה קלפי ושרייה
א"ל רבא ומי איכא דשרי כה"ג באתרא דשכיחי קלפי נפק שיפורי דרבא ואסר שיפורי דרב הונא בר חיננא ושרי
A boat-load of zahanta once came to Sikara. R. Huna b. Hinnena went to inspect it and, noticing scales [on the sides of the boat], declared the fish to be permitted.
Rava said to him: Does anyone give permission in a place where scales are so common!
Rava s announcement prohibiting the fish went out, R. Huna b. Hinnena s announcement went out that they were permitted.
A boat-load of fish called tzahanta comes in to town, but it is unclear whether these fish are kosher. There are no identifiable signs of kashrut on the fish themselves (probably because they are minced), but they can see scales on the sides of the boat. R. Huna b. Hinnena declares the fish to be kosher, assuming that the scales on the sides of the boat come from the fish in the boat. But Rava notes that many fish have scales. How do we know that the scales come from these fish and not from others? Each amora issues declarations prohibiting or permitting the fish. What a conflict!
א"ר ירמיה מדפתי לדידי אמר לי רב פפי כי שרא רב הונא בר חיננא בצירן אבל בגופן לא
אמר רב אשי לדידי אמר לי רב פפא כי שרא רב הונא בר חיננא אפי’ בגופן ואנא לא מיסר אסרינא דקאמר לי רב פפא ולא מישרא שרינא דהא אמר (לי) רב יהודה משמיה דעולא מחלוקת לטבל בצירן אבל בגופן דברי הכל עד שיהא ראש ושדרה ניכר של כל אחד ואחד יתיב
R. Yirmiyah of Difti said: R. Papi told me that R. Huna b. Hinnena allowed only the brine but did not allow eating the fish itself.
R. Ashi said: R. Papa told me that R. Huna b. Hinnena even allowed the fish to be eaten; but as for myself, I cannot prohibit it after what R. Papa told me, nor can I permit it, for Rav Judah said in the name of Ulla: There is a dispute is over whether it is permissible to dip [bread] in the brine, but as regards eating the fish all agree that it is prohibited unless both the head and backbone are recognizable in each one.
According to R. Papi, R. Huna allowed only the brine. He did not allow the eating of the fish itself. But R. Papa said that R. Huna was more lenient even the fish could be eaten.
R. Ashi is torn. On the one hand, he respects what R. Papa says, so he cannot rule strictly. Only the other hand, he has a tradition attributed to Ulla according to which the fish itself cannot be eaten unless the head and backbone of each fish is recognizable. So R. Ashi is left paralyzed, and cannot issue a directive one way or the other.
רב חיננא בר אידי קמיה דרב אדא בר אהבה ויתיב וקאמר עובד כוכבים שהביא עריבה מלאה חביות ונמצאת כילבית באחת מהן פתוחות כולן מותרות סתומות היא מותרת וכולן אסורות
א"ל מנא לך הא מתלתא קראי שמיע לי מרב ושמואל ורבי יוחנן
R. Hinnena b. Idi was sitting in front of R. Adda b. Ahavah; and while sitting there he said: If a non-Jew brought a boat laden with barrels [of fish-brine] and a kalbit-fish is found in one of them, should they be open barrels they are all permitted, but if is closed, that barrel is permitted and the rest are prohibited. [R. Adda] asked him: From where do you know this? I heard this from three verses: From Rav, Shmuel and R. Yohanan.
The kalbit fish is a sign that the brine is kosher. So if the barrels are open, one kalbit fish is sufficient for all of the barrels to be presumed kosher. But if the barrel is closed, then only that barrel can be considered kosher. The others must be suspected as coming from non-kosher fish. Interestingly, R. Hinena calls Rav, Shmuel and R. Yohanan verses as if to say that they are as reliable as the written word.