Avodah Zarah, Daf Mem Bet, Part 3

 

איתיביה רבי יוסי בן יסיאן אומר מצא צורת דרקון וראשו חתוך ספק עובד כוכבים חתכו ספק ישראל חתכו מותר ודאי ישראל חתכו אסור

אמאי תיהוי כעבודת כוכבים שנשתברה מאליה

הכא נמי כדרבא

 

[R. Yohanan] raised another difficulty against [R. Shimon:] R. Yose b. Yasian says: If he found the figure of a dragon with its head cut off, if there is a doubt whether an idolater or an Israelite cut it off, it is permitted; but if it is certain that an Israelite had cut it off, it is prohibited.

But why? Let it be considered the same as an idol which is broken of its own accord!

This case also has to be explained according to Rava.

 

An idolater can annul an idol, but a Jew cannot. So if we do not know who cut the dragon idol s head off, the idol is permitted. In cases of doubt, the law is lenient. But if we know a Jew cut the head off, the idol remains prohibited. This is essentially the same difficulty against Resh Lakish as we saw above. Why isn t this considered an annulled idol, like the case of an idol that broke on its own?

Again, the Talmud solves this according to Rava. Technically, the idol is annulled, but we do not permit it lest the Jew come to own the idol, in which case the idol can never be annulled.

 

איתיביה רבי יוסי אומר אף לא ירקות בימות הגשמים מפני שהנבייה נושרת עליהן

אמאי תיהוי כעבודת כוכבים שנשתברה מאליה

שאני התם דעיקר עבודת כוכבים קיימת

 

[R. Yohanan raised] another difficulty against [Resh Lakish]: R. Yose says: Nor may vegetables [be planted beneath an Asherah tree] in winter because the foliage falls upon them.

But why? Let it be considered the same as an idol which broke its own accord!

It is different in this case because the main part of the idol remains.

 

An Asherah is a tree that is worshipped. One may not derive any benefit from such a tree. R. Yose says that one may not plant under such a tree, because that would be taking advantage of the falling leaves as fertilizer. But again, why not consider the leaves to be like an idol that breaks on its own. After all, that is essentially what happened to the tree.

In this case we cannot consider the leaves to be annulled because the tree is still standing and nothing has happened to it. Unlike an idol that breaks, no one would say that the tree has broken just because some leaves fell off.

 

והא שיפויין דעיקר עבודת כוכבים קיימת וקתני לצרכה היא אסורה ושיפוייה מותרין

רב הונא בריה דרב יהושע אמר לפי שאין עבודת כוכבים בטלה דרך גדילתה

 

But what about chips [chipped off an idol] where the basic part of the idol remains, and it was taught [above]: If he did so for the idol s own need, it, it is prohibited but its pieces are permitted.

R. Huna the son of R. Joshua said: Because an idol cannot be annulled by a natural cause.

 

When it came to the Asherah tree, we said that if the main idol still exists, then the pieces are not annulled. But earlier we said that if a non-Jew chips some pieces off an idol to improve it, the chipped pieces are permitted, even though the idol still remains.

The answer is that falling leaves cannot be considered a form of annulment because this is natural. Nothing was done to the leaves to annul them. But when the idolater chips pieces off the idol, he is in essence removing their sanctity. Therefore they are permitted.