Avodah Zarah,  Daf Lammed Vav, Part 5

 

Introduction

According to the end of yesterday’s sugya, the Torah prohibited intercourse with a Gentile in public and the court of Shammai and Hillel prohibited it even in private. Our sugya begins by criticizing that chronology.

 

בצינעא נמי בית דינו של חשמונאי גזרו [דכי אתא רב דימי אמר ב"ד של חשמונאי גזרו] ישראל הבא על העובדת כוכבים חייב משום נשג"א

כי אתא רבין אמר משום נשג"ז

 

But the Court of the Hasmoneans had already decreed also against a private act; for when R. Dimi came [from Eretz Yisrael] he declared: The Court of the Hasmoneans decreed that an Israelite who had intercourse with a non-Jewish woman is liable on four counts, viz., she is regarded as niddah, a slave, a non-Jew, and a married woman; and when Rabin came [from Eretz Yisrael] he declared: On the following four counts,  she is regarded as niddah, a slave, a non-Jew, and a zonah!

 

The two rabbis here attribute the prohibition of sex with a non-Jewish woman to the Hasmoneans, who lived about 150 years before Shammai and Hillel.

These rabbis use some strong rhetoric with regard to this prohibition, making it akin to several grave sins. The difference between the two is only with regard to the last one. R. Dimi says it is as if she is married. Ravin says it is as if she is a “zonah” which technically is a woman prohibited to a priest.

 

כי גזרו בית דינו של חשמונאי ביאה אבל ייחוד לא ואתו אינהו גזור אפי’ ייחוד

 

When the Court of the Hasmoneans decreed, it was against intercourse but not against being secluded, so they came and decreed even against being secluded

 

The Talmud resolves the difficulty by saying that originally only intercourse was prohibited. Shammai and Hillel prohibited being alone with a non-Jewish woman, for they feared that this would lead to intercourse. Note that there are extensive rules preventing for the most part Jewish men and women from being alone in the same room. 

 

ייחוד נמי בית דינו של דוד גזרו דאמר רב יהודה באותה שעה גזרו על ייחוד

אמרי התם ייחוד דבת ישראל אבל ייחוד דעובדת כוכבים לא ואתו אינהו גזרו אפי’ אייחוד דעובדת כוכבים

 

But the Court of David had already decreed against seclusion, for Rav Judah said: At that time they made a decree against seclusion!

Say [that the decree of the Court of David] there referred to seclusion with an Israelite and not a non-Jewish woman, and they came and decreed even against seclusion with a non-Jewish woman.

 

But another tradition says that in the time of David they already decreed against seclusion. This occurred in the wake of the David and Bathsheba affair.

The Talmud answers that the prohibition of seclusion with a Jewish woman is indeed from David’s time. However, it was not yet prohibited for a Jewish man to be secluded with a non-Jewish woman. This was prohibited by Shammai and Hillel’s students. 

 

ייחוד דבת ישראל דאורייתא היא דאמר ר’ יוחנן משום ר"ש בן יהוצדק רמז לייחוד מן התורה מנין שנאמר (דברים יג, ז) כי יסיתך אחיך בן אמך וכי בן אם מסית בן אב אינו מסית? אלא בן מתייחד עם אמו ואין אחר מתייחד עם כל עריות שבתורה

 

But [the prohibition against] secluding with an Israelite woman is from the Torah; for R. Yohanan said in the name of R. Shimon b. Yehozadak: From where is there an indication in the Torah against seclusion? As it is said, “If your brother, the son of your mother… entices you” (Deuteronomy 13:7): Does the son of the mother, and not the son of the father, entice? Rather this teaches that a son may be secluded with his mother, but nobody else may secluded with any woman whom the Torah prohibits to him!

 

R. Yohanan finds a hint in the Torah itself that seclusion with a prohibited women is forbidden. So how can we say that the Court at the time of David prohibited this? It was already prohibited.

 

ייחוד דאורייתא דאשת איש ואתא דוד וגזר אפי’ אייחוד דפנויה ואתו תלמידי בית שמאי ובית הלל גזור אפי’ אייחוד דעובדת כוכבים

 

[The correct explanation is that] the Torah prohibits seclusion with an [Israelite] married woman; David came and decreed that seclusion was prohibited even with an unmarried woman; and the students of the Schools of Shammai and Hillel came and decreed that it was prohibited to be secluded even with a non-Jewish woman.

 

This concludes our history of decrees against sex and seclusion. Might make a good title for a book—The History of Sex and Seclusion, by Joshua Kulp.