Avodah Zarah, Daf Lamed Gimmel, Part 5
Introduction
Today s sugya discusses koshering wine vessels used with non-Jewish wine. We should note that while the specific subject here is non-kosher wine, the same rules do apply to kashering vessels in which other prohibited substances had been used.
בעא מיניה ר’ יהודה נשיאה מרבי אמי החזירן לכבשן האש ונתלבנו מהו?
א"ל ציר שורף אור לא כ"ש
אתמר נמי א"ר יוחנן ואמרי לה אמר ר’ אסי א"ר יוחנן קנקנים של עובדי כוכבים שהחזירן לכבשן האש כיון שנשרה זיפתן מהן מותרין
אמר רב אשי לא תימא עד דנתרן אלא אפי’ רפאי מירפא אע"ג דלא נתר
R. Judah Nesi’a asked of R. Ammi: What if he put them back into a furnace, so that they became heated to a very high temperature?
He replied: If brine has a cleansing effect on them, how much more so fire!
It has likewise been stated: R. Yohanan said (others say that R. Assi said it in the name of R. Yohanan): Flagons of idolaters which had been placed back in the furnace, as soon as the pitch has fallen off, are permitted.
R. Ashi said: Do not say until it has fallen off, rather, even if it has only been loosened, even though it has not dropped off [it is enough].
One can kasher earthenware wine vessels belonging to non-Jews by putting them back into the furnace. The heat will burn out any of the prohibited substance. R. Ashi adds that even if the pitch covering the inside of the vessel was only loosened and did not fall off, it is still permitted.
קינסא פליגי בה רב אחא ורבינא חד אסר וחד שרי והלכתא כמאן דאסר
[Where the pitch is removed by means of lighted wood chips: R. Aha and Ravina dispute this: One forbids while the other permits.
The law follows the one who forbids.
The amoraim debate whether instead of putting the earthenware jugs into the furnace (which probably could damage them), he can put lighted chips into the jugs and heat them up from the inside.
The final ruling is that this is not a valid means of kashering the jug.
איבעיא להו מהו ליתן לתוכו שכר? רב נחמן ורב יהודה אסרי ורבא שרי
The question was asked: Is it permissible to put beer into such a vessel?
R. Nahman and Rav Judah prohibited, but Rava permits.
According to Rava, the beer put in these wine jugs will nullify the taste of the wine and therefore it is permitted. According to R. Nahman and R. Judah it does not. As someone who knows quite a bit about beer, I must say that R. Nahman and R. Judah are usually correct. This is why some beer is allowed to age in wine barrels. It enriches the taste.
רבינא שרא ליה לרב חייא בריה דרב יצחק למירמא ביה שכרא
אזל רמא ביה חמרא ואפילו הכי לא חש לה למילתא אמר אקראי בעלמא הוא
Ravina permitted R. Hiyya the son of R. Yitzchak to pour beer into such a vessel. He went and put wine into it. Still he was not concerned about it, saying: It was only done by happenstance.
Ravina follows Rava and therefore he ruled that R. Hiyya could actually put beer into these vessels. R. Hiyya got confused and put wine in there. Rava was not concerned that by allowing people to use these vessels for beer, they would come to use them for wine. This case was just an accident.
רב יצחק בר ביסנא הוה ליה הנהו מאני דפקוסנא. מלינהו מיא. אנחינהו בשימשא. פקעו.
א"ל רבי אבא אסרתינהו עלך איסורא דלעולם. אימור דאמור רבנן ממלינהו מיא אנוחי בשימשא מי אמור?
R. Yitzchak b. Bisna had some vessels made of boxwood (meaning of word uncertain). He filled them with water and let them stand in the sun, and they split. R. Abba said to him: You have indeed prohibited them for yourself forever! While our rabbis did say they should be filled with water; did they say they should be left in the sun?
Oops filling the vessels with water was a good idea. Leaving them out in the sun, not such a good idea. R. Abba maybe you could have had a bit more sympathy for R. Yitzchak?
א"ר יוסנא א"ר אמי כלי נתר אין לו טהרה עולמית
מאי כלי נתר א"ר יוסי בר אבין כלי מחפורת של צריף
R. Yosna said in the name of R. Ammi: A vessel of natron can never be purified (i.e. koshered). What is a vessel of natron? R. Yose b. Abin: A vessel made of crystals coming from a mine of alum.
Natron seems to be sodium carbonate. It was mined in places that also had alum. Vessels made of this material cannot be kashered for they would dissipate in water.
דבי פרזק רופילא אנס הני כובי מפומבדיתא רמא בהו חמרא אהדרינהו ניהלייהו אתו שיילוהו לרב יהודה אמר דבר שאין מכניסו לקיום הוא משכשכן במים והן מותרין
A person from the house of the governor Parzak seized some [earthenware] wine-casks from [Jews in] Pumbedita. He put wine in them and then returned them. [The owners] came to ask Rav Judah about these, and he said: This is a case of vessels taken for temporary use, let them be rinsed with water and they will be permitted for use.
Since these wine vessels were not used that much, they may be simply rinsed with water and thereby koshered.