Avodah Zarah, Kaf Zayin, Part 2

 

Introduction

Today s sugya continues discussing circumcision performed by non-Jews.

 

איתמר מנין למילה בעובד כוכבים שהיא פסולה? דרו בר פפא משמיה דרב אמר ואתה את בריתי תשמור ורבי יוחנן המול ימול

 

It has been stated: From where do we know that circumcision performed by a non-Jew is invalid?

Daru b. Papa said in the name of Rav: [From the words,] And as for you, you shall keep my covenant.

While R. Yohanan: Circumcise, you shall surely circumcise [which he reads as if it says he who is circumcised shall circumcise.

 

The two amoraim here dispute which verse is the reason why non-Jews cannot circumcise Jews.

 

מאי בינייהו? ערבי מהול וגבנוני מהול איכא בינייהו מאן דאמר המול ימול איכא ומ"ד את בריתי תשמור ליכא

 

What practical difference is there between these two? The case of a circumcised Arab or a circumcised Gibeonite: According to the one who said, he who is circumcised shall circumcise he may, but according to the one who says, And as for you, you shall keep my covenant.

 

The Talmud will now struggle to find a practical difference between these two amoraim. The first suggestion is a non-Jew who is circumcised. R. Yohanan would allow because such a person is circumcised. Rav would not because this person is not part of the covenant.

 

ולמאן דאמר המול ימול איכא והתנן קונם שאני נהנה מן הערלים מותר בערלי ישראל ואסור במולי עובדי כוכבים אלמא אף על גב דמהילי כמאן דלא מהילי דמו

 

But according to the one who says, He who is circumcised shall circumcise is he really allowed, have we not learned, [He who says], I vow not to derive benefit anything belonging to uncircumcised persons, may derive benefit from uncircumcised Israelites, but may not derive benefit from circumcised non-Jew.

Thus, even though they are circumcised it is as if they are uncircumcised.

 

A mishnah from Nedarim seems to define circumcised non-Jews as if they are uncircumcised. Therefore, one who takes a vow not to derive benefit from the uncircumcised may not derive benefit from them. This means that R. Yohanan cannot allow a circumcised non-Jew to circumcise.

 

אלא איכא בינייהו ישראל שמתו אחיו מחמת מילה ולא מלוהו למ"ד ואתה את בריתי תשמור איכא למאן דאמר המול ימול ליכא

 

Rather they differ in the case of an Israelite whose brothers died because of circumcision so that he was not circumcised: according to the one who says, You shall keep my covenant he may: while according to the one who says, He who is circumcised shall circumcise, he may not.

 

The next possibility is that they disagree about an uncircumcised Jew Rav would allow him to because he is a member of the covenant, and R. Yohanan would not.

 

ולמ"ד המול ימול ליכא והתנן קונם שאני נהנה ממולים אסור בערלי ישראל ומותר במולי עובדי כוכבים אלמא אע"ג דלא מהילי כמאן דמהילי דמו

 

And to the one who said, He who is circumcised shall circumcise he may not? Have we not learned: [He who says,] I vow not to derive benefit from anything belonging to circumcised persons, must not derive benefit from uncircumcised Israelites, but may derive benefit from circumcised non-Jews: which proves that Israelites who are not circumcised are considered as circumcised.

 

The problem is that the mishnah defines uncircumcised Israelites as if they were circumcised. A Jew who was not circumcised (for medical reasons) should be allowed to circumcise.

 

אלא איכא בינייהו אשה למ"ד ואתה את בריתי תשמור ליכא דאשה לאו בת מילה היא ולמ"ד המול ימול איכא דאשה כמאן דמהילא דמיא

 

Rather they differ in the case of a woman. According to the one who says You shall keep my covenant, she may not circumcise, since a woman is not subject to circumcision, while according to the one who says He who is circumcised shall circumcise, she may, for a woman it is as if she is circumcised.

 

The final suggestion is that they disagree about whether a woman can circumcise. To Rav, she may not because she is not part of the covenant of circumcision. But to R. Yohanan she may because a woman does not need to be circumcised it is as if she is already circumcised.

 

ומי איכא למאן דאמר אשה לא והכתיב (שמות ד, כה) "ותקח צפורה צר"

קרי ביה ותקח.

והכתיב ותכרות קרי ביה ותכרת דאמרה לאיניש אחרינא ועבד

ואיבעית אימא אתיא איהי ואתחלה ואתא משה ואגמרה:

 

But does anyone really hold that a woman is not [qualified to perform circumcision]. Is it not written, Then Zipporah took a flint (Exodus 4:25)? Read it, she caused to be taken.

But it also says, And she cut off! Read it, And she caused it to be cut off, by asking another person, a man, to do it.

Or you may say it means that she only began and Moses came and completed it.

 

The problem with saying that a woman cannot circumcise is that Zipporah circumcises her and Moses s son on their way back to Egypt. The Talmud tries to read this as if she told someone else to circumcise, or only began the circumcision. Needless to say, these are not the simple readings of the text.

In the Middle Ages there were occasionally women who performed circumcision, especially in remote areas with few men. Today, I do believe that in some circles it is possible to find mohalot, but the practice extremely rare and certainly not found in the Orthodox world.