Avodah Zarah, Daf Kaf Vav, Part 6

 

Introduction

Today s sugya discusses whether non-Jews may circumcise Jews.

 

תנו רבנן ישראל מל את הגוי לשום גר לאפוקי לשום מורנא דלא וגוי לא ימול ישראל מפני שחשודין על שפיכות דמים דברי רבי מאיר

וחכמים אומרים גוי מל את ישראל בזמן שאחרים עומדין על גבו אבל בינו לבינו לא

ורבי מאיר אומר אפילו אחרים עומדים על גבו נמי לא דזימנין דמצלי ליה סכינא ומשוי ליה כרות שפכה

 

Our Rabbis taught: An Israelite may circumcise a non-Jew for the purpose of becoming a proselyte, but not for [the purpose of] removing a worm.

But a non-Jew may not circumcise an Israelite, because they are suspected of murder, the words of R. Meir.

The Sages said: A non-Jew may circumcise an Israelite, so long as others are standing by him, but not while he is on his own.

R. Meir said: Not even when others are standing by him, for he may find occasion to let the knife slip and so cut off his genitals.

 

In this baraita the sages and R. Meir disagree whether a non-Jew may circumcise a Jew R. Meir prohibits because he fears murder, while the other sages say that as long as precautions are taken, it is permitted. This dispute is the same as the dispute we saw above with regard to midwifing and nursing.

 

וסבר רבי מאיר גוי לא? ורמינהו עיר שאין בה רופא ישראל ויש בה רופא כותי ורופא ארמאי ימול ארמאי ואל ימול כותי דברי רבי מאיר

רבי יהודה אומר ימול כותי ואל ימול ארמאי

 

Does then R. Meir hold that a non-Jew is not [to be allowed to circumcise]? But the opposite is proved by the following: In a town where there is no Jewish physician, but there is a physician who is a Samaritan and one who is a non-Jew, let the non-Jew circumcise and not the Samaritan, the words of R. Meir. R. Judah said: Let the Samaritan circumcise and not the non-Jew.

 

In a case where the circumcision can be done only by a non-Jew or a Samaritan (a group similar to the Jews, but with a different center of worship), R. Meir says that the non-Jew should circumcise and not the Samaritan. This is probably because the Samaritan has the wrong intent, whereas the non-Jew has no intent. R. Judah allows the Samaritan but not the non-Jew, probably because the Samaritan is in some ways a Jew. In any case, this proves that R. Meir does allow a non-Jew to circumcise a Jew.

 

איפוך רבי מאיר אומר ימול כותי ולא ארמאי רבי יהודה אומר ארמאי ולא כותי

 

Reverse [the names]: R. Meir says that the Samaritan and not the non-Jew can circumcise, and R. Judah says the non-Jew and not the Samaritan.

 

The Talmud solves the problem by reversing the positions in the baraita now R. Meir holds that a non-Jew cannot circumcise. This is a trick the Talmud pulls occasionally. It usually leads to subsequent problems.

 

וסבר רבי יהודה ארמאי שפיר דמי? והתניא רבי יהודה אומר מנין למילה בגוי שהיא פסולה שנאמר ואתה את בריתי תשמר

 

Does then R. Judah hold that a non-Jew may circumcise? But has it not been taught: R. Judah said: From where can it be deduced that circumcision performed by a non-Jew is invalid? From this verse, And as for you, you shall keep my covenant (Genesis 17:9).

 

The problem is that now that we have reversed the positions in the baraita, R. Judah seems to hold that a non-Jew may circumcise. But this directly contradicts another statement of his.

 

אלא לעולם לא תיפוך והכא במאי עסקינן ברופא מומחה דכי אתא רב דימי אמר רבי יוחנן אם היה מומחה לרבים מותר

 

Indeed, do not reverse the positions, but say that we are here dealing with an expert physician. For when R. Dimi came he said in the name of R. Yohanan that if [a non-Jewish physician] is recognized as an expert by the public, it is permissible [for him to circumcise an Israelite].

 

The Talmud reverses the positions back to their original arrangement. Now we have to solve the contradiction in the positions of R. Meir. The answer is that to R. Meir it depends on whether the doctor is an expert.