Avodah Zarah, Daf Kaf Heh, Part 5
Introduction
Today s sugya finally moves on to the next section of the Mishnah-the prohibition of leaving a woman alone with non-Jews out of fear that they will have sex.
לא תתייחד אשה עמהם: במאי עסקינן? אילימא בחד דכוותה גבי ישראל מי שרי? והתנן לא יתייחד איש אחד עם שתי נשים אלא בתלתא
A woman should not be alone with idolaters. What are we dealing with here? If to one idolater, then in the case of an Israelite would it be permitted? Have we not learned, One man should not remain alone even with two women ?
It must therefore refer to three idolaters.
The Mishnah states that a Jewish woman should not be left alone with a non-Jewish man. The question is how does this differ from the rule with regard to being left alone with Israelites? The Mishnah in Kiddushin rules that a woman should not be isolated with a Jewish man.
Therefore, the prohibition here must refer even to three idolaters. While she can be alone with three Jews, she cannot be alone with three idolaters. [Rashi explains that the Talmud says three and not two because a woman is always allowed to be isolated with three Jewish men. Sometimes, she may not be isolated with two. For instance, if they are on the road. If one needed to go to the bathroom, she would be isolated with one].
דכוותה גבי ישראל בפרוצים מי שרי והתנן אבל אשה אחת מתייחדת עם שני אנשים ואמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל לא שנו אלא בכשרים אבל בפרוצים אפילו עשרה נמי לא מעשה היה והוציאוה עשרה במטה.
But would this be permitted in the case of loose Israelites? Have we not learned: But one woman may be alone with two men, and Rav Judah said in the name of Shmuel: This refers only to moral men, but as to loose ones, it is not permitted, even if they are ten. And it happened that ten men took her out on a bier [for an immoral purpose]!
It is prohibited for Jewish women to be isolated with loose Israelites, those who would not be ashamed to have sex with her in front of other men. This is true no matter how many there are. Thus again we are faced with the question how does the rule for isolation with non-Jews differ from the rule concerning isolation with Jews?
לא צריכא באשתו עמו עובד כוכבים אין אשתו משמרתו אבל ישראל אשתו משמרתו
It is necessary in a case where the man’s wife is present. An idolater, his wife will not prevent him, but the wife of an Israelite will prevent him.
There is a leniency in the laws of seclusion if a man s wife is with him, another woman may be isolated with him and his wife. The idea is that the man will have some sense of shame in front of his wife and will not come to have sex with another woman. This, according to this sugya, is true for Israelites but does not apply to non-Jews. They will have sex with another woman even in the presence of their wives.
ותיפוק ליה משום שפיכות דמים!
א"ר ירמיה באשה חשובה עסקינן דמירתתי מינה
רב אידי אמר אשה כלי זיינה עליה
But derive that this is prohibited for fear of murder?
R. Yirmiyah said: We are here dealing with a woman of high repute, so that he would be afraid of killing her.
R. Idi replied: Every woman has her weapons on her.
The Talmud asks why we fear that the idolater might have sex with her but do not seem to be concerned that he will kill her.
R. Yirmiyah limits the rule in the mishnah to a woman who is important. In such a case they should not be isolated lest they have sex. But we do not need to fear that he will murder her because he would be afraid to do so.
R. Idi says that women have a way of defending themselves from murder. According to Rashi, this refers to her ability to seduce him. Once he is seduced he will not want to murder her.
מאי בינייהו? איכא בינייהו אשה חשובה בין אנשים ושאינה חשובה בין הנשים
What is the practical difference between them? The practical difference is the case of a woman who is considered important among men but not among women.
This line of the Talmud is very difficult to explain and there are many opinions among rishonim as well as many different readings of the text itself. I will explain according to a dominant opinion which reads the Talmud slightly differently a woman who is considered important among women but not among women. To R. Yirmiyah, since she is not important among men, meaning she does not have strong ties to the government, she might be murdered. But to R. Idi, all women have their own protection, so we do not need to worry about murder.
Rashi has an entirely different explanation, but since he is universally rejected by later commentaries, I have not explained according to him.
תניא כוותיה דרב אידי בר אבין האשה אע"פ שהשלום עמה לא תתייחד עמהן מפני שחשודין על העריות:
It was taught in agreement in accordance with the opinion of R. Idi b. Abin: A woman, even though she in a state of peace, should not be alone with them, because they are suspected of fornication.
The key phrase here is even though she is in a state of peace. This implies that even though she will not be murdered, she still should not be alone with them for fear of fornication.