Avodah Zarah, Daf Nun Bet, Part 5
Introduction
Today s section refers to the Temple of Onias. This was a Temple built in Leontopolis Egypt. It served the Jews of Alexandria but did not replace the Temple. The rabbis viewed it, as you might expect, as illegitimate.
בעא מיניה ר’ יוסי בן שאול מרבי כלים ששימשו בהן בבית חוניו מהו שישתמשו בהן בבית המקדש
וקא מיבעיא ליה אליבא דמ"ד בית חוניו לאו בית עבודת כוכבים היא דתנן כהנים ששימשו בבית חוניו לא ישמשו במקדש שבירושלים ואינו צריך לומר לדבר אחר
כהנים הוא דקנסינהו רבנן משום דבני דעה נינהו אבל כלים לא או דלמא לא שנא
R. Yose b. Shaul asked Rabbi: May vessels which were used in the Temple of Onias be used in the Temple [in Jerusalem]? He asks based on the one who said that the Temple of Onias was not an idolatrous shrine; as we have taught: Priests who served in the Temple of Onias may not serve in the Temple which is in Jerusalem, and it is not even necessary to state this about [priests who served] other matters (idolatry).
Did the rabbis penalize the priests because they are aware of their actions but [they did not penalize] the vessels, or perhaps there is no difference?
R. Yose b. Shaul does not consider the Temple of Onias to be a place of idolatry, but nevertheless, it is still prohibited for priests to serve there. Any priest who did so may not serve in the Temple in Jerusalem. The question R. Yose is asking is whether this applies to the vessels as well. Or were only the priests penalized because they decided to serve in this Temple?
א"ל אסורים הן ומקרא היה בידינו ושכחנוהו
[Rabbi] replied to him: They are prohibited and we had a verse [on which to support this decision] but we forgot it.
Alas, Rabbi knows the answer, but does not remember how to prove it.
איתיביה (דברי הימים ב כט, יט) כל הכלים אשר הזניח המלך אחז במלכותו במעלו הכנו והקדשנו מאי לאו הכנו דאטבלינהו הקדשנו דאקדישננהו א"ל ברוך אתה לשמים שהחזרת לי אבדתי הכנו שגנזנום והקדשנו שהקדשנו אחרים תחתיהם
[R. Yose b. Shaul] raised a difficulty against him: All of the vessels that King Ahaz had befouled during his reign, when he trespassed, we have made ready and sanctified (II Chronicles 29:19): Does this not mean we have made ready that we immersed them, and sanctified that we have made them holy again!
He said to him: May you be blessed by Heaven for having restored my loss to me! We have made ready means we have stored them away, and sanctified that we have substituted others for them.
Both sages here refer to a verse from II Chronicles about the vessels that were defiled by the wicked King Ahaz. To both sages, this situation is parallel to the situation of vessels used in the Temple of Onias. The question is what did these people do with the vessels? According to R. Yose, they immersed them in a mikveh and then used them again. The same could be done with the vessels in the Temple of Onias. In contrast, according to Rabbi, they removed them and replaced them. Thus the vessels used in the Temple of Onias cannot be used in Jerusalem.
לימא מסייע ליה מזרחית צפונית בה גנזו בית חשמונאי את אבני המזבח ששקצו אנשי יון ואמר רב ששת ששקצו לעבודת כוכבים
Shall we say that [Rabbi] has support [from this Mishnah]: In the north-east the Hasmoneans stored away the altar-stones which the Greeks had made abominable.
And R. Sheshet said: They had made them abominable through idolatry?
Rabbi s opinion might be supported by a tradition that the Hasmoneans (the Maccabees) stored away (put in a geniza) the stones from the altar which the Greeks had defiled through idolatry.
אמר רב פפא התם קרא אשכח ודרש דכתיב (יחזקאל ז, כב) ובאו בה פריצים וחללוה אמרי היכי נעביד ניתברינהו (דברים כז, ו) אבנים שלמות אמר רחמנא ננסרינהו (דברים כז, ה) לא תניף עליהם ברזל אמר רחמנא
R. Papa said: There [in the case of the Hasmoneans] they found a verse and expounded on it, for it is written, And robbers shall enter into it and profane it (Ezekiel 7:22). They (the Hasmoneans) said: What should we do? If we break them, whole stones (Deuteronomy 27:6) demanded God; if we saw them, do not lift up an iron tool on them (v. 5) demanded God.
R. Papa finds a verse that says the Hasmoneans had no choice but to hide away the stones, for the verses from Deuteronomy would not allow them to do anything else.
In contrast, there is no verse to prove that the vessels used in the Temple of Onias are prohibited.
ואמאי ליתברינהו ולישקלינהו לנפשייהו מי לא אמר רב אושעיא בקשו לגנוז כל כסף וזהב שבעולם משום כספא ודהבא של ירושלים והוינן בה ירושלים הויא רובא דעלמא
אלא אמר אביי בקשו לגנוז דינרא הדרייאנא טוריינא שיפא מפני טבעה של ירושלים עד שמצאו לה מקרא מן התורה שהוא מותר ובאו בה פריצים וחללוה
But why did they not break them and take them for their own personal use? Has not R. Oshaia said: [The Rabbis] wanted to store away all the silver and gold in the world on account of the silver and gold [plundered from the Sanctuary] of Jerusalem! And they objected: Is Jerusalem the greater part of the world! Rather Abaye said: They wanted to store away every Hadrianic and Trajanic dinar which had become worn by use because it was coined from [metal captured from] Jerusalem; until they discovered a verse of the Torah according to which it was permitted, And robbers shall enter into it and profane it!
The Talmud asks why they could not just break the stones and then make personal use out of them. We can understand that they could not use them in the Temple service. But this does not mean that they are prohibited from personal use. The same thing occurred with coins after the Temple was destroyed. People feared that any such coin came from the gold and silver stolen from the Temple. But then they found a verse that said that once robbers (Greeks/Romans and other idolaters) enter the Temple, the objects in the Temple become profane and therefore permitted in personal use. So why not say the same thing about the altar?
התם לא אשתמשו בהו לגבוה הכא כיון דאשתמש בהו לגבוה לאו אורח ארעא לאשתמושי בהו הדיוטא:
There [in the case of the coins] they had not been used to worship God; but here [in the case of the altar-stones], since they had been used to worship God it would not be respectful to put them to a secular use.
The Talmud now explains why the coins could be put to personal use but the altar-stones cannot. The coins belonged to the Temple and were holy. But they were not used to worship God. Therefore they can be put to personal use. But the altar-stones were used in the Temple worship. Therefore, it would not be right to use them for personal needs.