Sukkah,  Daf Mem Gimmel, Part 1

 

Introduction

The chapter begins with a discussion of why one doesn’t take the lulav on Shabbat.

 

גמרא. אמאי? טלטול בעלמא הוא, ולידחי שבת! –

אמר רבה: גזרה שמא יטלנו בידו וילך אצל בקי ללמוד. ויעבירנו ארבע אמות ברשות הרבים. והיינו טעמא דשופר, והיינו טעמא דמגילה. –

 

GEMARA. But why [should it be forbidden to take the lulav on Shabbat]?   It involves only a mere movement, why then   should it not override the Shabbat? Rabbah said: It is a restrictive decree, lest one take [the lulav] in his hand and go to an expert in order to learn [how to wave it] and thereby he will be carrying it for four cubits through a public domain. 

And the same reason applies to the shofar,  and the same reason applies to the megillah.

 

According to the mishnah, the lulav does not override Shabbat except for the first day of Sukkot. What this means is that if Shabbat falls on any day of Sukkot besides the first, one does not take the lulav on that day.

But it is not clear why taking the lulav on Shabbat should be problematic. We are not talking about carrying it out in the public domain—that is certainly prohibited on any day. But why shouldn’t one leave it in the synagogue or in one’s home and take it on Shabbat? There doesn’t seem to be any prohibition for this.

Rabbah answers that the sages prohibited taking the lulav on Shabbat lest one not know how to wave it correctly (or not know something else about how to perform the mitzvah) and one carry it through the public domain to bring it to an expert who can show him how.

This is also the reason why we don’t blow the shofar on Shabbat or hear the megillah if Purim falls on Shabbat. In all three cases there is no real Torah prohibition. We are only concerned lest he carry it through the public domain to find an expert who knows how to blow the shofar correctly or read the megillah.

 

אי הכי, יום ראשון נמי! –

ראשון, הא תקינו ליה רבנן בביתו. –

התינח אחר תקנה, קודם תקנה מאי איכא למימר? –

אלא: ראשון דאיתיה מן התורה בגבולין – לא גזרו בהו רבנן, הנך דליתנהו מן התורה בגבולין – גזרו בהו רבנן. –

But if so, the same should be true of the first day?

The first day! The Rabbis enacted that he should take it at home [on the first day that falls on Shabbat].

That is true after the enactment, but what can you say about before the enactment?

Rather the first day, since the obligation to take the lulav is from the Torah even in the provinces the rabbis  did not decree,  but with regard to the other days for which there is no obligation from the Torah to take the lulav in the provinces, the Rabbis did decree.

 

The problem with Rabbah’s explanation above is that it doesn’t explain why one still takes the lulav if the first day falls on Shabbat.

At first, this is easily answered. The end of the mishnah itself says that the rabbis decreed that if the first day falls on Shabbat, one should take the lulav in one’s own home. Not in the synagogue.

The Talmud now has an additional problem—what about before they made this decree. As we recall, the mishnah describes people bringing their lulavim to synagogue before Shabbat so they wouldn’t have to carry them. But why allow this at all—why didn’t we fear that they would forget to bring them the day before and then they would end up carrying on Shabbat.

The answer is that since taking the lulav on the first day of Sukkot is a mitzvah from the Torah, the rabbis did not decree that one should not do so. The mitzvah from the Torah overrides the fear that one will carry on Shabbat.

  

אי הכי, האידנא נמי!

אנן לא ידעינן בקיבועא דירחא.

אינהו דידעי בקיבועא דירחא – לידחו! –

אין הכי נמי; (דתני) +מסורת הש"ס: [דתנן]+ חדא: ביום טוב הראשון של חג שחל להיות בשבת כל העם מוליכין את לולביהן להר הבית, (ותניא) +מסורת הש"ס: [ותנן]+ אידך: לבית הכנסת. שמע מינה: כאן – בזמן שבית המקדש קיים, כאן – בזמן שאין בית המקדש קיים, שמע מינה.

 

But if so, the same should be true now!

We do not know how to fix the New Moon.  

But they, who know how to fix the New Moon, let it override [the Shabbat]?

This is indeed so; for in our Mishnah we have learned: If the first day of the festival, fell on Shabbat, all the people brought their lulavim to the Temple Mount, while in another Mishnah we have learned [that they brought them] to the Synagogue,   consequently you may deduce from these that the former refers to the time when the Temple was in existence while the latter refers to the time when the Temple was no longer in existence.

This is conclusive.

 

The question that the Talmud asks is very illustrative, for it shows that in Babylonia Jews did not take the lulav on the first day of Sukkot even when it fell on Shabbat. In other words, even though the mitzvah is from the Torah on the first day, they still do not take the lulav.

The answer is that in Babylonia they did not know exactly when Sukkot fell because they didn’t know when the New Moon  (first of the month, Rosh Hodesh) was determined. I’m not going to get into this too deeply, but in Israel every month they would determine when Rosh Hodesh fell; whether the previous month had 29 days or 30 days. There was no set calendar as we have today (and from the fourth century). This would have consequences for the date of Sukkot and Pesah (and the other holidays as well). But in Babylonia or elsewhere outside of Israel, they wouldn’t find out when Rosh Hodesh was until much later. That is how the custom to keep two days of Yom Tov in the Diaspora was formed. Since they weren’t really sure if the day was the first day of Sukkot or not, they did not take the lulav.

The Talmud asks somewhat rhetorically—why doesn’t the lulav override Shabbat in Israel where they do know when the New Moon is declared? The answer is that it does. This is proven by comparing two mishnayot.  In one mishnah the people are described as bringing their lulavim to the Temple and in another mishnah they bring their lulavim to the synagogue. The first mishnah refers to a time when the Temple still stood and the second mishnah to the period following its destruction, proving that Jews in Israel continue to take the lulav even in the absence of the Temple.

I should note that currently in Israel, the same rules as the Diaspora apply. No one takes the lulav on Shabbat, even if it falls on the first day.