Sukkah, Daf Lamed Gimmel, Part 3

 

Introduction

The mishnah rules that if the berries on the hadas were more numerous than the leaves, it is invalid. This is the topic of today’s sugya.

 

או שהיו ענביו מרובין. אמר רב חסדא. דבר זה רבינו הגדול אמרו, והמקום יהיה בעזרו: לא שנו אלא במקום אחד, אבל בשנים או שלשה מקומות – כשר.

 

Or if its berries were more numerous than its leaves.

R. Hisda said: This matter was stated by our great master, and may God be his help! They taught it only [if all the berries were] in one place, but if in two or three places, it is valid.

 

R. Hisda transmits a statement by his rabbi (identified by Rashi as Rav) limiting the mishnah’s ruling to a case where the berries were all in one place and there were more in that one place than on the entire hadas branch. But if the berries were spread out in several places the hadas is valid even if there were more berries than leaves.

 

אמר ליה רבא:שנים ושלשה מקומות הוי מנומר, ופסול!

 

Rava said: If the berries are in two or three places it is regarded as striped and [therefore] invalid.

 

Rava rejects Rav’s statement because a hadas with berries in several places would look striped and would not look good at all. Below the Talmud will rephrase Rav’s statement.

 

אלא, אי אתמר הכי אתמר: או שהיו ענביו מרובין מעליו – פסול.

אמר רב חסדא: דבר זה רבינו הגדול אמרו, והמקום יהיה בעזרו: לא שנו אלא ענביו שחורות אבל ענביו ירוקות – מיני דהדס הוא, וכשר.

 

Rather if it was at stated, it was stated in this way: or if its berries were more numerous than its leaves, it is invalid.

R. Hisda said: This matter was stated by our great master, and may God be his help!! They taught this only if the berries were black, but if they were green they are merely a species of hadas and valid.

 

In this version of R. Hisda/Rav’s statement, he limits the mishnah to a case of black berries. Such black berries disqualify the hadas, if they are more numerous than the leaves. However, if the berries are green than that is just a normal hadas and it is valid. We should also note that such a hadas won’t look "striped" thereby averting the difficulty raised by Rava.

 

אמר רב פפא: אדומות כשחורות דמיין.

דאמר רבי חנינא: האי דם שחור – אדום הוא, אלא שלקה.

 

R. Papa said: Red [berries] are like black ones, since r. Hanina said, black blood is [in reality] red blood except that it has deteriorated.

 

R. Hanina said that with regard to identifying menstrual blood, black counts as red. The same, according to R. Papa, is true for the berries on the hadas. Red berries disqualify the hadas the same way that black berries do.