Sukkah, Daf Lamed Aleph, Part 6

 

Introduction

Today’s section continues to discuss whether R. Judah requires that the etrog be "goodly."

 

תא שמע: אתרוג הישן פסול, ורבי יהודה מכשיר. תיובתא דרבא, תיובתא.

 

Come and hear: An old etrog is invalid, but R. Judah declares it valid.

This is a refutation of Rava, indeed it is a refutation.

 

The fact that R. Judah allows one to use an old etrog, assumedly dried up, means that he does not require that it be "goodly." This is a refutation of Rava above who held that all sages agree that the etrog must be goodly.

 

ולא בעי הדר? והא אנן תנן: הירוק ככרתי, רבי מאיר מכשיר, ורבי יהודה פוסל. לאו משום דבעי הדר? – לא, משום דלא גמר פירא.

 

But [R. Judah] does not require that it be goodly? Have we not in fact learned: One that is green as a leek, R. Meir declares it valid and R. Judah invalid.

Is this not because it must be goodly?

No! It is because the fruit is not yet ripe.

 

Despite the fact that we seem to have resolved the question above, the Talmud presses on does R. Judah really not require that the etrog be "goodly." In another baraita R. Judah invalidates a green etrog. This seems to prove that he does require that it look good. Yellow etrogs are better looking than green etrogs.

The Talmud rejects this understanding of the baraita. R. Judah invalidates a green etrog not because it doesn’t look good but because it is not yet ripe.

 

 

תא שמע: שיעור אתרוג קטן, רבי מאיר אומר: כאגוז, רבי יהודה אומר: כביצה.

לאו משום דבעי הדר? – לא, משום דלא גמר פירא.

 

Come and hear: The minimum size of an etrog: R. Meir says; like a nut; R. Judah says: like an egg.

Is it not because it must be goodly?

No! It is because the fruit is not ripe.

 

Again, the Talmud uses a baraita to try to prove that R. Judah requires a "goodly" etrog. Here, R. Judah says that it cannot be smaller than an egg, which is larger than the minimum size prescribed by R. Meir, a nut. His preference for a larger sized etrog seems to be due to aesthetics a large etrog looks better than a small one.

Again, the Talmud rejects this, saying that the minimum size prescribed by R. Judah is because a smaller etrog is not yet ripe.

 

תא שמע: ובגדול כדי שיאחוז שנים בידו אחת, דברי רבי יהודה. רבי יוסי אומר: אפילו אחד בשתי ידיו. מאי טעמא – לאו משום דבעי הדר? – לא, כיון דאמר רבה: לולב בימין ואתרוג בשמאל, זימנין דמחלפי ליה, ואתי לאפוכינהו, ואתי לאיפסולי.

 

Come and hear: Its maximum size is such that a person should be able to hold two in one hand, the words of R. Judah. R. Yose says, Even if one can hold one etrog in both hands.

What is the reason? Is it not because he requires it to be goodly?

No! As Rabbah said, The lulav [must be held] in the right hand and the etrog in the left, and since sometimes he might put them in the wrong hands, when he switches hands [the etrog might fall] and become invalid.

 

This time the Talmud tries to use the maximum size as proof that R. Judah holds that the etrog needs to be "goodly." R. Judah says that the etrog must be small enough to be held in one hand. R. Yose allows a much bigger etrog. The initial assumption is that R. Judah requires a smaller etrog because too big of an etrog doesn’t look good.

Again, the Talmud rejects this. R. Judah requires that the etrog can be held in one hand lest one drop a larger etrog if he at first put it in the wrong hand.

 

ואלא לרבי יהודה הא כתיב הדר! – ההוא הדר באילנו משנה לשנה.

 

But, to R. Judah is it not written [in the Torah] "goodly"?

This means "that which resides on the tree from year to year."

 

Finally, the Talmud asks how R. Judah can allow the etrog to not be "goodly" when it says so specifically in the Torah. Indeed, the etrog is called "the fruit of the goodly tree."

The Talmud answers that R. Judah reads the word differently. The Hebrew word for "goodly" is "hadar" which can also mean "to reside" (the heh is a prefix and the dalet and resh are the root for "reside.") R. Judah says that this fruit must be one that "resides" in the tree from year to year, as an etrog does. But it need not be "goodly."