Sukkah, Daf Bet (2), part 2

 

Introduction

In today’s piece of Talmud we will see three different amoraim providing biblical sources for the 20 cubit height limit to the sukkah.

 

From where do we know this?

Rabbah answered: Scripture says, "That your generations will know that I caused the children of Israel to dwell in sukkot" (Leviticus 23:43). Up to twenty cubits [high] one knows that he is dwelling in a sukkah, but with one higher than twenty cubits he does not know that he is dwelling in a sukkah, since his eye does not catch sight of it.

 

מנא הני מילי? אמר רבה: דאמר קרא +ויקרא כג+ למען ידעו דרתיכם כי בסכות הושבתי את בני ישראל, עד עשרים אמה – אדם יודע שהוא דר בסוכה, למעלה מעשרים אמה – אין אדם יודע שדר בסוכה, משום דלא שלטא בה עינא.

 

Rabbah emphasizes the word "know" from the verse. A person must dwell in a sukkah in such a way that he "knows" that he is in a sukkah. Since sukkah is synonymous most of the time with "skhakh" the person must notice the skhakh. If the skhakh is higher than 20 cubits one will not notice it.

 

Rabbi Zera said: From the following verse, "And there shall be a sukkah for shade in the daytime from the heat" (Isaiah 4:6). Up to twenty cubits [high] one sits in the shade of the sukkah; but with one higher than twenty cubits he sits, not in the shade of the sukkah but in the shade of its walls.

Abaye said to him: If so, if a man made his sukkah in Ashteroth Karnayim would it also not be a valid sukkah?

He answered him: In that case, remove the Ashteroth Karnayim and there will remain the shade of the sukkah, but here, remove the walls, and you have no shade of a sukkah.

 

רבי זירא אמר: מהכא +ישעיהו ד+ וסכה תהיה לצל יומם מחרב, עד עשרים אמה – אדם יושב בצל סוכה, למעלה מעשרים אמה – אין אדם יושב בצל סוכה, אלא בצל דפנות. אמר ליה אביי: אלא מעתה, העושה סוכתו בעשתרות קרנים, הכי נמי דלא הוי סוכה? – אמר ליה: התם, דל עשתרות קרנים – איכא צל סוכה, הכא דל דפנות – ליכא צל סוכה.

 

Rabbi Zera emphasizes the word "shade" from the verse in Isaiah. The sukkah, i.e. the skhakh, must provide shade, not the walls. If the skhakh is higher than 20 cubits then the walls will provide the shade.

Abaye raises a difficulty on Rabbi Zera. Ashteroth Karnayim seem to be two large mountains. If a person made his sukkah in between these two mountains, then the mountains would provide the shade, not the skhakh. Nevertheless, everyone agrees that such a sukkah is valid.

Rabbi Zera responds by noting that in the case of Ashterot Karnayim the skhakh would provide shade, if the mountains were not there. But in the case of the 20 cubit sukkah, even if you took away the walls, the skhakh would not provide shade, at least not in the area in which he is sitting. Therefore, a 20 cubit sukkah is invalid whereas a sukkah built in the shade of mountains (or tall buildings for that matter) is.

 

Rava replied: From the following verse, "You shall dwell in sukkot for seven days" (Leviticus 23:42) the Torah declared: For seven days leave your permanent dwelling place and dwell in a temporary dwelling place. Up to twenty cubits [high] one makes his home a temporary one; higher than twenty cubits, one does not make his home temporary, but permanent.

Abaye said to him: If so, if he made walls of iron and placed the [proper] skhakh over them, would it also not be a valid Sukkah.

He answered him: This is what I mean to tell you: Up to twenty cubits, which a man makes his temporary home, even if he makes it permanent, he has fulfilled his mitzvah; [but in one] higher than twenty cubits, such as a man makes his permanent home, even if he makes it temporary, he has not fulfilled his obligation.

 

ורבא אמר: מהכא +ויקרא כג+ בסכת תשבו שבעת ימים. אמרה תורה: כל שבעת הימים צא מדירת קבע ושב בדירת עראי. עד עשרים אמה – אדם עושה דירתו דירת עראי, למעלה מעשרים אמה – אין אדם עושה דירתו דירת עראי, אלא דירת קבע.

אמר ליה אביי: אלא מעתה, עשה מחיצות של ברזל וסיכך על גבן – הכי נמי דלא הוי סוכה?

אמר ליה, הכי קאמינא לך: עד עשרים אמה, דאדם עושה דירתו דירת עראי, כי עביד ליה דירת קבע – נמי נפיק. למעלה מעשרים אמה, דאדם עושה דירתו דירת קבע, כי עביד ליה דירת עראי – נמי לא נפיק.

 

 

Rava focuses on the seven day aspect of the sukkah. For the sukkah to be valid it must be built as an impermanent dwelling place. If one builds the sukkah too high, over twenty cubits, then the sukkah is invalid because it is considered a permanent dwelling place.

Abaye again raises a difficulty. There is no halakhah preventing one from making his sukkah out of walls of iron. Such a sukkah would clearly be valid even though it is permanent. So why should a twenty cubit sukkah be invalid?

Rava responds by saying that a twenty cubit sukkah must be permanent. One could not build a temporary structure that is so high. But up to twenty cubits one could build a temporary structure. Therefore, even if he uses "permanent" material, the sukkah is still valid.