Megillah, Daf Kaf Zayin, Part 5

 

Introduction

In the mishnah the sages said that a synagogue can be sold for it to be used as anything except for a bathhouse, a tannery, a ritual bath, or a urinal. R. Judah says that the synagogue can be sold for it to be used as a courtyard but then the person buying it could turn it into whatever he wants.

 

וחכמים אומרים מוכרין אותו ממכר עולם וכו‘.

אמר רב יהודה אמר שמואל: מותר לאדם להשתין מים בתוך ארבע אמות של תפלה.

אמר רב יוסף: מאי קמשמע לן? תנינא, רבי יהודה אומר: מוכרין אותה לשום חצר, ולוקח מה שירצה יעשה. ואפילו רבנן לא קאמרי אלא בית הכנסת דקביע קדושתיה, אבל ארבע אמות דלא קביע קדושתייהו – לא.

 

The sages say he may sell it permanently etc.

Rav Judah said in the name of Shmuel: It is permitted for a man to urinate within four cubits of where prayers have been said.

R. Joseph said: What has he told us? We have already learned it: R. Judah says: it may be sold for use as a courtyard, and the purchaser may do what he likes in it; and even the rabbis did not forbid except for in the synagogue itself, since its sanctity is permanent, but for the four adjoining cubits, the sanctity of which is not permanent, they did not make such a rule.

 

R. Judah says that a person can urinate within four cubits of a place of prayer. [They did not have indoor plumbing inside the synagogue back then].

R. Joseph says that we could have learned this ourselves from the mishnah. First of all, R. Judah said that a person who purchases a synagogue can do what he wants in there once he has bought it. He could even turn it into a urinal. Obviously one can pray within four cubits of a urinal.

Second, even the rabbis said only that he could not turn the synagogue itself into a urinal. But this does not mean that he could not urinate within four cubits of the synagogue. So if this is so obvious, why did R. Judah even need to say it.

 

תני תנא קמיה דרב נחמן: המתפלל מרחיק ארבע אמות ומשתין, והמשתין מרחיק ארבע אמות ומתפלל. אמר ליה: בשלמא המשתין מרחיק ארבע אמות ומתפלל תנינא: כמה ירחיק מהן ומן הצואה – ארבע אמות, אלא המתפלל מרחיק ארבע אמות ומשתין למה לי? אי הכי, קדשתינהו לכולהו שבילי דנהרדעא!

 

A tanna recited in the presence of R. Nahman: One who has just said prayers should go a distance of four cubits and urinate, and one who has urinated should go a distance of four cubits and pray.

He said to him: I grant you that that one who has urinated should go four cubits and pray, for we have taught this: How far should he go away from it and from excrement? Four cubits.

But why should one who has prayed have to go four cubits before urinating? If that is the rule, you have sanctified all the streets of Nehardea!

 

A tanna says that a person who has just urinated should move away four cubits before praying. R. Nahman confirms this with a baraita.

However, the tanna also said that one who has just prayed must move four cubits away before praying. If that were the rule, then all of Nehardea would be holy because there are not four cubits in which a person has not prayed. [R. Nahman was from Nehardea, a city in Babylonia].

תני: ישהה. בשלמא משתין ישהה כדי הילוך ארבע אמות – משום ניצוצות, אלא מתפלל ישהה כדי הילוך ארבע אמות למה לי? אמר רב אשי: שכל ארבע אמות תפלתו סדורה בפיו ורחושי מרחשן שפוותיה.

 

Rather teach, "He should wait [the time it takes to go four cubits]".

I grant you that one who has urinated should wait till he can go four cubits [before praying], on account of drippings [on his clothes].

But why should one who has just prayed wait long enough to go four cubits?

R. Ashi replied: Because for the time it takes to go four cubits his mouth is still full of his prayer and his lips are still muttering it.

 

Due to the above difficulty, R. Nahman emends the baraita recited by the tanna. Instead of having to actually walk four cubits away before praying or urinating, now he only needs to wait the amount of time it would take to walk four cubits. I can’t imagine this would take more than two seconds. Completely knocks the wind out of the original halakhah.

The Talmud still tries to explain the baraita. One who has urinated should wait a few seconds before praying because he is still dripping for a few seconds. Obviously, he should not pray while still dripping. [Sorry for the yuckiness of this sugya].

However, why should he have to wait after praying before he urinates? R. Ashi answers that it takes a few seconds to sort of cool down after praying. Even though he is done praying, the words are still on his mouth and lips for a few seconds. Therefore he should wait before urinating.