Kiddushin, Daf Het, Part 6
Introduction
More instances where she says to give the kiddushin object to someone else or put it somewhere else besides directly in her hands. Again, I want to emphasize that these are not realistic situations. This is the Talmud s way of exploring what it means to give something to someone or to give benefit to them.
ת"ר התקדשי לי במנה תנם על גבי סלע אינה מקודשת ואם היה סלע שלה מקודשת
בעי רב ביבי סלע של שניהם מהו תיקו?
Our Rabbis taught: [If he says,] Be betrothed to me with a maneh, [and she replies,] Put it on a rock, she is not betrothed; but if the rock was hers, she is betrothed.
R. Bibi asked: What if the rock belonged to both of them? The question stands.
She needs the kiddushin to be placed on her property for her to be betrothed. Just putting them on a rock does not count as giving the money to her. If the rock belonged to both of them, there is no answer whether this counts as kiddushin.
התקדשי לי בככר תנהו לכלב אינה מקודשת ואם היה כלב שלה מקודשת
[If he says,] Be betrothed to me for a loaf of bread, [and she replies,] Give it to the dog, she is not betrothed; but if it was her dog, she is betrothed.
Telling the man to just give it to a dog is like telling him to throw the kiddushin away. But if the dog is hers, then she is feeding her dog. I m sure she loves her dog.
בעי רב מרי כלב רץ אחריה מהו בההוא הנאה דקא מצלה נפשה מיניה גמרה ומקניא ליה נפשה או דלמא מצי אמרה ליה מדאורייתא חיובי מחייבת לאצולן תיקו
R. Mari asked: What if the dog was chasing after her?
[Do we say that] in return for the benefit of saving her from it she resolves and gives herself to him [in betrothal]; or perhaps she can say to him, By Biblical law you are obligated to save me ? The question stands.
The woman is running down the street being chased by a dog. The man says to her Be betrothed to me and she says Give it to the dog. Does this count as betrothal? On the one hand, she is getting some benefit protection from the hungry dog? On the other hand, he is obligated to save her, so this is not really benefit. It s what she deserves anyways.
There is no answer to this question. Let s hope this situation does not arise too often.
התקדשי לי בככר תנהו לעני אינה מקודשת אפילו עני הסמוך עלה מאי טעמא אמרה ליה כי היכי דמחייבנא ביה אנא הכי מחייבת ביה את
[If he says,] Be betrothed to me with a loaf, [and she replies,] Give it to a poor person : she is not betrothed, even if it was a poor man who relies on her.
Why? She can say to him, Just as I have an obligation to him, so do you have an obligation to him.
In this case, she is not betrothed because by giving the loaf to the poor person the man is observing his own commandment to give tzedakah. He is not giving benefit to her, even if this is a poor person who is reliant upon her for his sustenance.
The implication of all this is that if I am performing a mitzvah that benefits someone else, I am not directly giving benefit to this other person because I am obligated to do so in any case. I could not, for instance, ask for recompense for saving someone else s life, at least not beyond my expenses (the loaf of bread).