Kiddushin, Daf Ayin Daled, Part 6
Introduction
The problem with the Rav Yehudah s rule all who are forbidden to enter into the congregation of priesthood may intermarry with each other is that it does not hold true all of the time.
וכללא הוא דכל האסורים לבא בקהל כהונה מותרין לבא זה בזה והרי אלמנה וגרושה וחללה וזונה דאסורים לבא בקהל כהונה ואסורים לבא זה בזה
[But] is it a general principle that all who are forbidden to enter into the congregation of priesthood may intermarry with each other? But what of a widow, a divorced woman, a halalah and a zonah, who are forbidden to enter into the congregation of priesthood, and yet may not intermarry with these others?
There are women who may not marry priests, but still cannot marry mamzerim or netinim. These would include a widow who may not marry a high priest, a divorced woman who may not marry a priest, a halalah (a woman who had sex with a disqualified priest) or a zonah (a woman who had sex with someone prohibited to her).
ותו הא מותר אסור והרי גר שמותר בכהנת ומותר בממזרת
Furthermore, [the principle implies,] but one who is permitted [to marry into the priesthood] is forbidden [to intermarry with these]; but a convert is permitted to a priest’s daughter, yet also permitted to a mamzeret!
The mishnah would imply that one who is permitted to marry into the priesthood would be forbidden to intermarry with mamzerim, etc. But this too is not always true. A convert can marry a priest s daughter because the prohibition applies only to priests, not their daughters. Nevertheless, a convert can still marry a mamzeret.
אלא אמר רב נתן בר הושעיא ה"ק כל שכהן אסור לישא את בתו ומאי ניהו גר שנשא גיורת וכר’ אליעזר בן יעקב מותרין לבא זה בזה
Rather R. Natan b. Hoshaia said: This is what [the Mishnah] means: Anyone whose daughter a priest may not marry–and who is that? A convert married to a convert, and this accords with R. Eliezer b. Jacob–may intermarry with these others.
R. Natan gives a new interpretation of the mishnah. The mishnah refers to a case where the priest may not marry the daughter, and according to R. Eliezer b Ya akov, this is a case where both parents were converts. The convert can marry other disqualified people such as mamzerim and netinim.
וכללא הוא דכל שכהן אסור לישא את בתו מותרים לבא זה בזה הרי חלל שנשא בת ישראל דכהן אסור לישא בתו ואסורין נמי לבא זה בזה
Now, is this a general principle that one whose daughter a priest may not marry may intermarry with these? But what of [the case of] a halal who marries an Israelite’s daughter, though a priest may not marry his daughter, yet he may not intermarry with these others?
Again, the Talmud points out that this principle does not always hold true. If a halal marries an Israelite s daughter the offspring cannot marry a priest. However, the halal may not marry a mamzer.
לא קשיא כר’ דוסתאי בן יהודה
This is not a difficulty: [Our Tanna follows] R. Dostai b. Yehudah.
The answer to this difficulty is that the mishnah follows R. Dostai b. Yehudah who holds that a priest can marry the daughter of a halal and an Israelite.
והרי חלל שנשא חללה וכהן אסור לישא בתו ואסור נמי לבא זה בזה
ותו הא מותר אסור והרי גר שנשא בת ישראל וכהן מותר לישא בתו ומותרין לבא זה בזה
But what of a halal who marries a halalah, though a priest may not marry his daughter, yet he may intermarry with these others.
Furthermore, [the principle implies,] but one whose [daughter] is permitted [to marry a priest] is forbidden [to intermarry with these]; but what of a convert who marries an Israelite’s daughter, though a priest may marry his daughter, yet he may intermarry with these others!
Again, the rule is problematic. First of all, all tannaim agree that a priest may not marry the daughter of a halal and a halalah. And yet a halal cannot marry a mamzeret.
And again, by implication, if the person s daughter can marry a priest, we d have to assume that he cannot marry a mamzer. But this is not true of a convert who marries an Israelite woman. A priest can marry his daughter, but he may still marry a mamzeret.
אלא אמר רב נחמן אמר רבה בר אבוה הכא ממזר מאחותו וממזר מאשת איש איכא בינייהו ת"ק סבר אפי’ ממזר מאחותו נמי הוי ממזר ור’ יהודה סבר מאשת איש הוי ממזר מאחותו לא הוי ממזר
Rather R. Nahman said in the name of Rabbah b. Abbuha: Here they differ with respect to a mamzer from a sister and a mamzer from a married woman.
The first Tanna holds that even a mamzer from a sister is mamzer; while R. Yehudah holds: from a married woman it is mamzer, but not from a sister.
R. Nahman argues that in our mishnah they argue over the definition of a mamzer. The tanna kamma (first opinion) holds that the offspring of any relationship prohibited by karet is a mamzer. This would include a man who has incest with his sister. Thus according to the first opinion, a mamzer from a sister could marry a mamzer from a married woman. But R. Yehudah would say the former is not a mamzer, so he could not marry a mamzer from a married woman.
מאי קמ"ל תנינא איזהו ממזר כל שהוא (דברים כג, ג) בלא יבא דברי ר’ עקיבא
שמעון התימני אומר כל שחייבין עליו כרת בידי שמים והלכה כדבריו
ר’ יהושע אומר כל שחייבין עליו מיתת ב"ד
What does this come to teach us? We have taught this already: Who is a mamzer? [The offspring of a union with] any relative with whom cohabitation is forbidden, the words of Rabbi Akiva. Shimon the Yemenite says: [The offspring of any union] for which one is obligated kareth at the hands of heaven; and the halachah is like his words.
Rabbi Joshua says: [The offspring of any union] for which one is obligated death at the hands of a court.
The problem with this interpretation of the mishnah is we already know this dispute about what type of union creates a mamzer. So what new information would we be learning here.
אלא אמר רבא גר עמוני ומואבי איכא בינייהו והכי קאמר כל האסורים לבא בקהל ומאי ניהו גר עמוני ומואבי מותרין לבא זה בזה
Rather Rava said: They differ in reference to an Ammonite and a Moabite convert, and this is its meaning: All who are forbidden to enter into the congregation, and who are they? An Ammonite and a Moabite convert may intermarry with each other.
Rava interprets the mishnah to refer to Ammonite and Moabite converts. Such converts may not marry Israelites that is explicit in the Torah. The mishnah teaches that they may marry other disqualified people such as mamzerim.
ה"ק אע"פ שרבי יהודה אוסר גר בממזרת הני מילי גר דראוי לבא בקהל אבל גר עמוני ומואבי דאין ראויין לבא בקהל לא
If so, what does it mean by R Yehudah forbids it? This is what it means: Even though R. Yehudah forbids a convert [to intermarry] with a mamzeret, that is only a convert who is eligible to enter into the congregation, but Ammonite and Moabite converts, who are not eligible to enter into the congregation, are not permitted [to marry each other].
R. Yehudah allows converts to marry mamzerim, but that is only because converts can enter into the congregation. They may marry Israelites. But Ammonites and Moabites have a special prohibition. They are not permitted to marry Israelites, and therefore, they are also not permitted to marry one another.