Gittin, Daf Heh, Part 4

 

Introduction

The Talmud now notes that not only did Rabbah and Rava, two Babylonian amoraim, dispute this issue, but it was disputed by R. Yohanan and R. Yehoshua b. Levi, two amoraim from the Land of Israel, as well.

 

בִּפְלוּגְתָּא דְּרַבִּי יוֹחָנָן וְרַבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ בֶּן לֵוִי חַד אָמַר לְפִי שֶׁאֵין בְּקִיאִין לִשְׁמָהּ וְחַד אָמַר לְפִי שֶׁאֵין עֵדִים מְצוּיִין לְקַיְּימוֹ תִּסְתַּיֵּים דְּרַבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ בֶּן לֵוִי הוּא דְּאָמַר לְפִי שֶׁאֵין בְּקִיאִין לִשְׁמָהּ דְּרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בַּר אַבָּא אַיְיתִי גִּיטָּא לְקַמֵּיהּ דְּרַבִּי יְהוֹשֻׁעַ בֶּן לֵוִי וַאֲמַר לֵיהּ צְרִיכְנָא לְמֵימַר בְּפָנַי נִכְתַּב וּבְפָנַי נֶחְתַּם אוֹ לָא

אֲמַר לֵיהּ לָא צְרִיכַתְּ לֹא אָמְרוּ אֶלָּא בְּדוֹרוֹת הָרִאשׁוֹנִים שֶׁאֵין בְּקִיאִין לִשְׁמָהּ אֲבָל בְּדוֹרוֹת הָאַחֲרוֹנִים דִּבְקִיאִין לִשְׁמָהּ לֹא תִּסְתַּיֵּים

 

[They are disputing] the same dispute as is between R. Yohanan and R. Yehoshua ben Levi, for one said: Because they are not experts in the laws of [writing the get] for her sake, and the other said: Because witnesses are not found to uphold the get.

Conclude that it was R. Yehoshua ben Levi who said: Because they are not experts in the laws of for her sake , for R. Shimon bar Abba brought a get in front of R. Yehoshua ben Levi and said to him: Do I need to say It was written in my presence and signed in my presence or not?

He said to him: You do not need [to make this declaration]. They only said this about the earlier generations, who were not experts in the laws of for her sake. But in the latter generations, which are experts in the laws of for her sake it is not necessary.

Make this conclusion.

 

We know that R. Yohanan and R. Yehoshua ben Levi have the same dispute as do Rabbah and Rava but we do not know who holds what. R. Yehoshua ben Levi rules in an actual case that the statement need not be made because people now know the laws of writing the get for her sake. Thus it seems quite clear that R. Yehoshua ben Levi is the one that holds that the reason for the declaration is as Rabbah said people don t know the law. Since they now do, the declaration need no longer be made.

 

וְתִסְבְּרָא וְהָא רַבָּה אִית לֵיהּ דְּרָבָא

וְעוֹד הָא אָמְרִינַן שֶׁמָּא יַחְזוֹר דָּבָר לְקִלְקוּלוֹ

אֶלָּא רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בַּר אַבָּא אִינִישׁ אַחֲרִינָא הֲוָה בַּהֲדֵיהּ וְהָא דְּלָא חָשֵׁיב לֵיהּ מִשּׁוּם כְּבוֹדוֹ דְרַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן

 

But do you really think this? But Rabbah agrees with Rava!

And furthermore, we said that we are concerned lest the matter return to its prior, spoiled state.

Rather, Rabbi Shimon bar Abba had another person with him. And the reason [Rabbi Yehoshua] did not take this other man into account was due to the honor of R. Shimon.

 

The problem with R. Yehoshua ben Levi s answer is that earlier we said that Rabbah agrees with Rava even in the absence of a concern that the get was not written for her sake, the agent still needs to make this declaration to avoid having to uphold the get through its witnesses, which are hard to find. Furthermore, we also earlier said that even if people now know this law, the mandate for the agent to make the declaration is still in effect lest people forget the law. Therefore, the fact that R. Yehoshua ben Levi does not make R. Shimon bar Abba state the declaration cannot be because he holds that it does not need to be done.

Rather, there was another person with R. Shimon bar Abba and as we learned earlier, if two bring the get, they can act as witnesses and the declaration need not be made. R. Yehoshua ben Levi ignored this other person out of respect for R. Shimon bar Abba (I feel bad for this other guy, but at least we do not know his name).