Avodah Zarah, Daf Samekh Tet, Part 5

 

Introduction

In the Mishnah, the tanna kamma (the author of the first opinion) and R. Shimon b. Gamaliel dispute concerning how long the Jew has to be away for the wine to become prohibited. According to the first opinion, if the Jew is away for as long as the non-Jew would need to bore a hole [in a jar], stop it up and [the sealing clay] to become dry the wine is prohibited. Rabban Shimon b. Gamaliel is more lenient and provides a longer time: [a length of time] sufficient for him to open a cask, put a new stopper on and [the new stopper] to become dry. Today s sugya discusses this topic.

 

אמר רבה בר בר חנה א"ר יוחנן מחלוקת בשל סיד אבל בשל טיט דברי הכל כדי שיפתח ויגוף ויגוב

 

Rabbah b. Bar Hanah said in the name of R. Yohanan: The dispute is over [a stopper of] lime, but with one of clay all agree [that he must have been absent a length of time] sufficient for him to open, put a new stopper on, and [the new stopper] to become dry.

 

According to R. Yohanan, the rabbis are more stringent than R. Shimon b. Gamaliel in the case of a stopper of lime, where a hole could be sealed relatively easily and not detected. If, however, the stopper is of clay, where a hole could not be sealed, then all agree that the wine is prohibited only if he is absent long enough for the non-Jew to make a new stopper and let it dry.

 

מיתיבי ארשב"ג לחכמים והלא סתומו ניכר בין מלמעלה ובין מלמטה

אי אמרת בשלמא בשל טיט מחלוקת היינו דקתני סתומו ניכר בין מלמעלה ובין מלמטה אלא אי אמרת בשל סיד מחלוקת בשלמא למטה ידיע אלא למעלה הא לא ידיע

 

They raised the following refutation: R. Shimon b. Gamaliel said to the Sages: But his stopping can be detected either on the outside or the inside!

If you say that there is difference of opinion [when the stopper is] of clay that is why it teaches [R. Shimon b. Gamaliel] the stopping can be detected either on the outside or the inside. If, on the other hand, you say that there is difference of opinion [when the stopper is] of lime, then it is all right with regard to the inside since it can be known, but as regards the outside it cannot be known!

 

The Talmud quotes a baraita to refute R. Yohanan. In this baraita R. Shimon b. Gamaliel says that if he bores a hole in the stopper, the hole will be seen on both the inside and outside of the stopper. Therefore, R. Shimon b. Gamaliel is concerned only if the Jew is absent long enough for the non-Jew to make a new stopper.

But this makes sense only with a clay stopper. With the lime stopper one could not detect it on the outside because the lime can be smoothed out and made to look as if it was not tampered with. Thus Rabban Shimon b. Gamaliel assumes that the rabbis state their opinion in the case of the clay stopper.

 

רבן שמעון בן גמליאל הוא דלא’ ידע מאי קאמרי רבנן וה"ק להו אי בשל טיט קאמריתו סתומו ניכר בין מלמעלה ובין מלמטה ואי בשל סיד קאמריתו נהי דלמעלה לא ידיע למטה מיהא ידיע

 

R. Shimon b. Gamaliel was uncertain what the rabbis were saying; so he said to them as follows: If you refer to a clay stopper, then his stopping can be detected on the outside or the inside; but if you refer to one of lime, granted that it cannot be known on the outside, yet it can be known on the inside!

 

This is R. Yohanan s answer. R. Shimon b. Gamaliel did not know what type of stopper the rabbis were referring to. If they were referring to a clay stopper, then the stopping could be seen on the inside or outside. This is what he said in the baraita. But he also said to them that if they were referring to a lime stopper, the stopping can still be seen on the inside. This will deter the non-Jew and the wine will be permitted under the assumption that the Jew did not leave the wine alone with him for long enough.

 

ורבנן כיון דמלמעלה לא ידיע לא מסיק אדעתיה דאפיך וחזי ליה אי נמי זימנין דחלים

 

And the Rabbis [how did they respond]?

Since it cannot be known on the outside, it would not occur to him to turn over [the stopper] and inspect it; Alternatively, sometimes [the new stopping] hardens.

 

According to R. Yohanan, the rabbis disagree only concerning the lime stopper. Since the stopping can only be seen on the inside, the Jew might not turn the stopper over to see if it had been tampered with. Knowing this, the non-Jew might bore a hole and drink some wine. Therefore, if he has long enough to do so, the wine is prohibited.