Avodah Zarah, Daf Samekh Het, Part 1

 

Introduction

This week s daf continues to discuss the issue of imparting a detrimental taste. Last week we learned that R. Meir says that even if the prohibited substance imparts a bad taste, the mixture is prohibited. R. Shimon says it is permitted.

 

אמר עולא מחלוקת שהשביח ולבסוף פגם אבל פגם מעיקרא דברי הכל מותר

 

Ulla said: The difference [between R. Meir and R. Shimon] is over a case where [the mixture] is improved at first but in the end worsens, but if it is worsened from the outset all agree that it is permitted.

 

R. Meir prohibits the mixture only if the taste is at first improved and then deteriorates. But if from the outset it gives a dish a bad taste, then the dish is permitted. Here he agrees with R. Shimon.

 

איתיביה רב חגא לעולא יין שנפל לתוך עדשים וחומץ שנפל לתוך גריסין אסור ור"ש מתיר

והא הכא דפגם מעיקרא הוא ופליגי

 

R. Haga raised a difficulty against Ulla: If wine [which is yayin nesekh] fell into lentils or vinegar into split beans it is prohibited, but R. Shimon permits it.

Behold here is a case where it deteriorates from the outset, and they still differ.

 

R. Haga cites a baraita which seems to say explicitly that even though the wine or vinegar impairs the taste of the dish from the outset, R. Meir (the anonymous first opinion) still prohibits.

 

אמר עולא חגא לא מידע ידע מאי קאמרי רבנן תיובתא קא מותיב הכא במאי עסקינן כגון שנפל לתוך גריסין צוננין והרתיחם נעשה כמי שהשביח ולבסוף פגם ואסור

 

Ulla replied: Haga does not know what the rabbis are saying and yet he raises an objection. What are we dealing with here? For instance it fell into cold split beans and he then warms them, this is like a case where it is first improved and then worsened.

 

Ulla vituperatively responds to Haga. The baraita refers to a case where the vinegar first fell into cold beans. This would improve the taste. But when he heats the dish up, the taste becomes worse and thus R. Meir prohibits. R. Shimon permits it in any case.

 

ור’ יוחנן אמר בפוגם מעיקרא מחלוקת

איבעיא להו בפוגם מעיקרא מחלוקת אבל השביח ולבסוף פגם דברי הכל אסור או דלמא בין בזו ובין בזו מחלוקת תיקו

 

And R. Yohanan said: They argue when [the mixture] worsens from the outset. The question was asked: Do they argue over a case where it worsens from the outset but if it first improves and only in the end worsens all would hold that it is prohibited, or perhaps in either case they argue? The question remains unanswered.

 

R. Yohanan says that tannaim argue if the mixture is worsened from the outset R. Meir prohibits and R. Shimon permits. However, it is not clear what this implies for a case where the mixture first improves and then worsens. It could be that R. Shimon would agree with R. Meir that it is prohibited. Or it could be that he is lenient here as well. In this case they would argue about both cases.