Avodah Zarah, Daf Samekh Daled, Part 4

 

Introduction

Today s section explains a baraita from yesterday. The baraita reads:

 

If an Israelite has a claim for a maneh against an idolater and the latter sold an idol and brought him the proceeds or yayin nesekh and brought him the proceeds, [the money] is permitted; but if [the idolater] said, Wait until I sell an idol and I will bring you the proceeds or yayin nesekh and I will bring you the proceeds, it is prohibited.

 

Today s section clarifies why in the first case the deal is permitted and the second it is not.

 

מאי שנא רישא ומאי שנא סיפא? אמר רב ששת סיפא משום דהוה ליה כי רוצה בקיומו

 

What is the difference between the first case and the second cases [that one is permitted and the other not]?

R. Sheshet said: The latter [is prohibited] because [the Jew] then wishes [the idol] to be preserved.

 

The difference between the first half and the second half of the baraita, according to R. Sheshet, is that in the second half, when the idolater says, wait until I sell the idol/yayin nesekh and bring you the proceeds the Jew wants the forbidden object to continue to exist until it is sold. Therefore the proceeds are prohibited.

וכי רוצה בקיומו כה"ג מי אסיר והתנן גר ועובד כוכבים שירשו אביהן עובד כוכבים גר יכול לומר לו טול אתה עבודת כוכבים ואני מעות טול אתה יין נסך ואני פירות אם משבאו לרשות הגר אסור

 

But is it prohibited if he wishes it to be preserved in such a case? Have we not taught: If a convert and an idolater inherited from their father who was an idolater, the convert can say to his brother, You take the idol and I the money; You take the yayin nesekh and I will take the proceeds ; but after they come into the possession of the convert it is forbidden.

 

The Talmud raises a difficulty on R. Sheshet from the case of a convert and a non-Jew who inherit from their father who has not converted. The convert cannot take possession of the idolatrous objects or the yayin nesekh. But he can make a deal with his brother his brother will take the idolatrous, prohibited things, and he can take the items permitted to Jews. This is so even though the Jew would seem to want the idolatrous things to continue to exist so that his brother can inherit them. Thus, even though the Jew wants the idolatrous things to be preserved, as long as he does not actually own them, there is no problem.

 

אמר רבא בר עולא מתני’ בעבודת כוכבים המתחלקת לפי שבריה

 

Raba b. Ulla said: This baraita refers to an idol which can be divided according to its pieces.

 

This baraita refers to an idol that can be broken into pieces and still retain its value. Therefore, the Jew does not care if it is preserved. But the baraita from yesterday refers to an idol that cannot be broken up and therefore since the Jew would want it to be preserved, it is prohibited.

 

תינח עבודת כוכבים יין נסך מאי איכא למימר בחרס הדרייני

 

Let this be so with an idol, but what is there to say with yayin nesekh!

[It refers to wine preserved] in hadrianic earthenware.

 

How can wine be broken into pieces? If it is in jugs then the Jew wants those jugs to continue to be preserved.

The answer is that the wine is preserved in hadrianic earthenware these are potsherds soaked in wine. When people would travel they would bring them and put them in water to give the water flavor.

 

והלא רוצה בקיומו שלא יגנובו ושלא יאבדו

 

But does he not want that they should be preserved in the sense that they not be stolen or lost!

 

Still, the Jew does in a sense care that they should be preserved he doesn t want them to be stolen or lost. This is another difficulty against R. Sheshet. Again, the baraita about the convert and his idolatrous brother seems to prove that just because the Jew wants the idol to be preserved does not make it prohibited.

 

אלא א"ר פפא ירושת הגר קאמרת שאני ירושת הגר דאקילו בה רבנן גזירה שמא יחזור לקלקולו

תניא נמי הכי בד"א שירשו אבל נשתתפו אסור

 

Rather R. Papa said: You referred to the inheritance of a convert! The inheritance of a convert is different for Rabbis were lenient about it lest he might relapse into his error.

It was also taught in a baraita: To what does this refer? When they inherit, but in a case of partnership it is prohibited.

 

The difficulty is finally resolved by noting that inheritance is different. The rabbis allowed the convert to divide the inheritance in this manner because otherwise they feared that he would revert to being an idolater. After all, the loss of inheritance could be a major blow to his finances. But in a regular case of partnership, such a division is prohibited. The original baraita was not a case of a convert and therefore, since the Jew wants the idolatrous object to be preserved, it is prohibited.