Kiddushin, Daf Ayin Aleph, Part 5
Introduction
More stories about lineage.
עולא איקלע לפומבדיתא לבי רב יהודה
חזייה לרב יצחק בריה דרב יהודה דגדל ולא נסיב
א"ל מאי טעמא לא קא מנסיב ליה מר איתתא לבריה
א"ל מי ידענא מהיכא אנסיב
אמר ליה אטו אנן מי ידעינן מהיכא קאתינן דילמא מהנך דכתיב (איכה ה, יא) נשים בציון ענו בתולות בערי יהודה
וכי תימא עובד כוכבים ועבד הבא על בת ישראל הולד כשר
Ulla visited R. Yehudah in Pumbedita.
He saw that R. Yitzchak, the son of R. Yehudah, was grown up, but had not married.
He asked him, Why have you not taken a wife for your son?
He replied, Do I know from where to take one?
He said to him, Do we know from where we are descended? Perhaps from one of those of whom it is written: They ravished the women in Zion, the maidens in the cities of Judah (Lamentations 5:11).
And should you answer: A non-Jew or slave who has intercourse with the daughter of an Israelite, the offspring is fit.
R. Yehudah does not seem to want to marry off his son because he cannot determine the lineage of the women around him. Ulla begins to point out that we too do not know our lineage. Perhaps we are descended from the Babylonians who raped Israelite women during the time when the First Temple was destroyed. R. Yehuda could respond that he holds that the offspring of a non-Jew and a Jewish woman is fit. Therefore, maybe we are pure.
ודילמא מהנך דכתיב בהו (עמוס ו, ד) השוכבים על מטות שן וסרוחים על ערסותם
ואמר רבי יוסי בר’ חנינא אלו בני אדם המשתינים מים בפני מטותיהם ערומים
ומגדף בה ר’ אבהו א"ה היינו דכתיב (עמוס ו, ז) לכן עתה יגלו בראש גולים משום דמשתינים מים בפני מטותיהם ערומים יגלו בראש גולים
אלא אמר ר’ אבהו אלו בני אדם שאוכלין ושותין זה עם זה ומדביקין מטותיהם זו בזו ומחליפין נשותיהם זה לזה ומסריחים ערסותם בשכבת זרע שאינה שלהם
Then perhaps [we are descended] from those of whom it is written, that lie on beds of ivory, and stretch themselves [seruhim] upon their couches (Amos 6:4).
And R. Yose son of R. Hanina said: This refers to people who urinate in front of their beds naked.
But R. Abbahu ridiculed this interpretation: If so, that is what is written: Therefore now shall they go captive at the head of them that go captive (Amos 6:7). Just because they urinate before their beds naked they will go captive with the first that go captive!
Rather R. Abbahu said, this refers to people who eat and drink together, join their couches, exchange their wives and make their couches foul [masrihim] with semen that is not theirs.
In this colorful exchange, R. Abbahu ends up interpreting the verse about those taken captive as referring to people who act licentiously, committing adultery. Perhaps, Ulla says, we are descended from such people whose children are mamzerim.
In short, Ulla questions how R. Yehudah can be so sure about his lineage.
אמר ליה היכי נעביד
אמר ליה זיל בתר שתיקותא כי האי דבדקי בני מערבא כי מינצו בי תרי בהדי הדדי חזו הי מנייהו דקדים ושתיק אמרי האי מיוחס טפי
He said to him, Then what should I do?
He replied, Follow the silence. As do those from Eretz Yisrael who make a test: When two quarrel, they see which becomes silent first and say: This one is of superior birth.
Ulla gives him a simple test those who are less quarrelsome, they are of superior lineage.
אמר רב שתיקותיה דבבל היינו יחוסא
איני והא איקלע רב (לבי בר שפי חלא) ובדק בהו מאי לאו ביחסותא לא בשתיקותא
הכי קאמר להו בדוקו אי שתקי אי לא שתקי
Rav said: The silence of Babylonia, is [the mark of] its lineage.
But is that so, for Rav visited those of the house of Bar Shafei Hala and examined them; surely that means as to their genealogy?
No, by their silence. This is what he said to them: Examine [them], whether they are silent or not.
Genealogical exams are done by people s silence, their agreeableness. This is how Rav examined the people of Shafei Halah (Rashi explains that they are vinegar strainers). If they do not argue a lot, then they have good lineage.
אמר רב יהודה אמר רב אם ראית שני בני אדם שמתגרים זה בזה שמץ פסול יש באחד מהן ואין מניחין אותו לידבק אחד בחבירו
אמר ר’ יהושע בן לוי אם ראית שתי משפחות המתגרות זו בזו שמץ פסול יש באחת מהן ואין מניחין אותה לידבק בחברתה
R. Yehudah said in the name of Rav: If you see two people quarreling, there is a blemish of unfitness in one of them, and they are not allowed to cleave to each other.
R. Yehoshua b. Levi said: If you see two families quarreling, there is a blemish of unfitness in one of them, and they are not allowed to cleave to each other.
If people or families quarrel then one must be unfit and God will providentially prevent them from marrying one another.
One might read these sources as teaching that when people get along it is a sign that they are fit to get married. At the end of the day, this is not bad advice.